Thanks, Davor.
Sorry about the last one to reply. I was between jobs and couldn't focus on
Amaterasu as well. Now that it's all settled, count me in for the
contributions too. Yaniv and I met a couple of weeks ago to discuss what I
could pick up.
Cheers
Arun
On Wed, Oct 3, 2018, 03:12 Davor Bonaci <da...@apache.org> wrote:
> Okay; it seems there 4 people interested and willing to work on the
> project. Option #2 it is.
>
> Some other comments:
>
> - Please don't apologize for any lack of contribution at any given time --
> this is a volunteer led organization and we totally understand and
> appreciate volunteer efforts as, when and if they are made.
>
> - There are many ways of growing the community; the best one is by
> increasing usage and adoption ("user fit"). Obviously, this is a hard
> problem, requiring lot of time, user development, and improving the
> technology. Alternatively, if there's no organic growth, companies often
> get paid developers regardless in hopes that those people can solve the
> problem with user fit and jump start the organic growth. There are no easy
> answers, perhaps similar to the book The Hard Thing About Hard Things. You
> have to work like crazy on it, there's no recipe.
>
> - You should discuss the goals so that there are no moving goalposts. Think
> about some metrics that you want to accomplish now, and then measure
> yourself against them in 3 months. All four of you should drive this
> discussion -- and JB and I should just be the observers. And, please, make
> sure you start those conversations again to check on the progress. (Please
> don't wait for me to do it.)
>
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2018 at 4:39 AM Kirupa Devarajan <kirupagara...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I would like the project to remain in podling too. My workload is
> becoming
> > less and I will start contributing too.
> >
> > -Kirupa
> >
> > On Tue., 2 Oct. 2018, 6:26 pm Jean-Baptiste Onofré, <j...@nanthrax.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I second Davor here. I think it makes sense to think about retiring the
> > > podling. I don't see large community around the project (both dev and
> > > user).
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > JB
> > >
> > > On 02/10/2018 09:27, Davor Bonaci wrote:
> > > > Any comments? Anyone?
> > > >
> > > > Option 1: start a vote to retire the podling and move the project
> into
> > > your
> > > > own repository.
> > > > Option 2: keep things as-is for a few months and re-assess.
> > > >
> > > > I'd say Option 2 requires a minimum of 3 people explicitly saying
> that
> > > they
> > > > want to continue trying and contributing.
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 8:13 PM Davor Bonaci <da...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Thanks Yaniv for your comments.
> > > >>
> > > >> - After the release of 0.2.0 the community became very quiet. I
> > think
> > > >>> that at this point in the life of the project it is natural, as
> we
> > > all
> > > >>> doing this in our free time and the release was a major effort
> > that
> > > >>> all of
> > > >>> us (after talking to members in the community) had to compensate
> > for
> > > >>> in our
> > > >>> day jobs and families.
> > > >>> With that said, we shouldn't have gone so quiet. I think we can
> > all
> > > >>> agree this is not acceptable for so long (if at all).
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> Not sure I agree: it is not natural for projects in the Incubator to
> > be
> > > >> quiet. It does happen to projects that are getting
> > obsolete/irrelevant,
> > > >> often after many years as TLPs. The release usually *increases*
> > activity
> > > >> around the project as new users come, ask questions, start
> > contributing,
> > > >> etc.
> > > >>
> > > >> On the other hand, totally fine for people to go quiet. The problem
> > > isn't
> > > >> around anybody going quiet, but the fact of nobody new arriving. Is
> > > there
> > > >> any evidence of any usage of the release? Anybody hitting any
> problem?
> > > Any
> > > >> lack of documentation? Any bugfixes? That's the core of the problem.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>> - It is very critical at this point to grow the community. Going
> > > back
> > > >>> to
> > > >>> my first point, as long as we are such a small community,
> efforts
> > > like
> > > >>> releasing a version will set us back, and the last release is a
> > good
> > > >>> example for that danger.
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> Not sure I agree: releases usually pick up the activity, pick up new
> > > >> users, as new features now make the project more attractive. I don't
> > > think
> > > >> I've ever seen an argument where "releasing a version sets us back".
> > > >> Especially the *first* one.
> > > >>
> > > >> - Grow the community. BTW I think this is one reason we should
> > > consider
> > > >>> staying an Apache project, I think that with the release, we
> > should
> > > >>> also
> > > >>> shift some focus to growing the community. This is an issue I
> see
> > > other
> > > >>> projects struggling with, this includes TLPs such as Apache
> Arrow
> > > (in a
> > > >>> recent thread on their dev list) and I don't think there is one
> > > answer
> > > >>> on
> > > >>> how to do it, and I spent some time on other lists to see if
> they
> > > have
> > > >>> solutions. I think we can do many things to fix this, and it's
> > more
> > > of
> > > >>> a
> > > >>> trial and error process for most projects. Things we can (and
> > should
> > > >>> start
> > > >>> doing immediately) includes doing more public presentations
> (and I
> > > >>> have to
> > > >>> give a shout-out @Nadav Har Tzvi <nadavhart...@gmail.com> that
> > > >>> presented
> > > >>> in two conferences recently), write blog posts, and we should
> all
> > > >>> invest
> > > >>> time in doing so. But one thing we also need to do is actively
> > > looking
> > > >>> for
> > > >>> more contributors. If anyone here has someone they think is a
> good
> > > fit,
> > > >>> let's try to get them onboard.
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> Outreach (blogs, talks, etc.) can help, but they help you *scale*. I
> > > think
> > > >> the project hasn't demonstrated early user fit -- and trying to
> scale
> > > >> before establishing that often doesn't yield results. For example,
> if
> > > you
> > > >> were to throw Amaterasu in front of 1000 people, how many would join
> > the
> > > >> community? If only a few, it is probably a bad idea to do it. (I
> worry
> > > it
> > > >> is less than a few.)
> > > >>
> > > >> The problem is likely with the user fit, and can be solved only by
> > user
> > > >> development -- most of which often happens before scaling, before
> > > building
> > > >> the community, and before joining the Incubator.
> > > >>
> > > >> It is really, really, really hard to build the community before
> early
> > > user
> > > >> fit.
> > > >>
> > > >> I think that the next few months are more about staying in the
> > > incubating
> > > >>> or not, it is do-or-die for Amaterasu. We need to fix the situation
> > so
> > > I
> > > >>> wouldn't rush in this situation to consider retiring quite yet.
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> I'm totally fine with leaving things as-is for a few more months.
> > But, I
> > > >> don't think it is realistic to expect changes to the degree
> necessary
> > to
> > > >> graduate. As a result, I think you can use *your time* better.
> > > >>
> > > >> * * *
> > > >>
> > > >> I'm really sorry to be the messenger of bad news. I don't want to
> > paint
> > > >> Amaterasu (or your work) in any bad way. I do want you and the
> project
> > > to
> > > >> be most successful as possible.
> > > >>
> > > >> Please note that I don't gain anything by driving this conversation.
> > In
> > > >> fact, I lose a lot. Time is a precious resource of everyone -- and
> I'd
> > > like
> > > >> to make sure that the time *you* have for the project is spent in a
> > way
> > > >> that is likely to yield results, not trying to achieve various ASF
> > goals
> > > >> that may not achievable. (If this is not obvious now, I trust that
> > over
> > > >> time direct feedback and tough conversations will be appreciated,
> > > instead
> > > >> of letting you waste time for something unrealistic -- which is what
> > > most
> > > >> people in my shoes would do.)
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jean-Baptiste Onofré
> > > jbono...@apache.org
> > > http://blog.nanthrax.net
> > > Talend - http://www.talend.com
> > >
> >
>
