Hi Ken and all,
Actually, I think Ken's remarks apply to BOTH Stephen and Berin... and most other people participating on Apache lists. =:o) However, I am not sure that this kind of negative cycle starts because of the way one makes remarks about someone else's project. The most negative jumps of these threads seem to be related to the way any remark is taken more than to the way they are made - that is why aggression tends to escalate mostly on the reactions. People just tend to be over-defensive about their baby-project or baby-ideas. And then they tend to take any remark as personal and don't notice that it is just a debate of ideas. IMHO it is more positive to focus on developing thicker skins than on transforming the Apache mailing lists on the stage of heavy diplomatic exercises. BTW, this is what I like about Sam Ruby: thick skin, very calm reactions, very economic on words (I have to learn a lot on this one). I participate less on these lists these days, but I still follow them regularly. From my perspective it is quite clear that Stephen and Berin are on the same boat and have the same targets, (as it happens with the other Avaloners, of course). If only they could believe (or just remembered) this "same boat" thing... Just one more thought about agreeing on standards: Of course that we are all after the Holy Grail of the perfect framework (hey, this is Avalon!) and of course that we tend to believe that there is only one Grail... ...BUT none of us is completely sure about how that Holy Grail looks like and we all often admit that we are still searching. So, lets not try to find an agreement about how things should look like when it can be too early. Lets keep giving some room to experimentation and to try different competing ideas. Thank you Berin, Stephen and all the others for the work you have been doing here. I keep learning a lot from you all. Have fun, Paulo Gaspar > -----Original Message----- > From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Nicola Ken Barozzi > Sent: segunda-feira, 21 de Julho de 2003 7:42 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Huh? (was Re: Merlin's Future with Avalon) > > > ... > > It does not show. What I think is that your rational intention is not to > attack anyone, but emotionally you feel Merlin attacked, and you reply > in tone, even if it's not what you want to convey. > > Mail, as well as conversations, is *not* aseptic. Emotions percolate > through, if you want it or not. > > ... > > See, you are trying to demonstrate by words and rational arguments that > you are right... which is not the thing to do. Think about the > "emotional" part: you felt attacked, it showed in your mails, Berin felt > it and feels attacked. Now the problem is *not* who is right, but how to > make the other *feel* better and not attacked. > > Rational arguments don't work for this, they only make things harder. A > simple "sorry if you felt like this, I did not mean to, what can we do > to fix the issue" is much more effective. > > Remember that others feel how they feel, not how you would like them to > feel. > > ... > > Don't do the same errors that you have seen others do and that you have > learned to dislike. Please. > > -- > Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - verba volant, scripta manent - > (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
