It seems a couple of people are getting a head of themselves. Firstly, the -1 vote of Dan and Hadrian are invalid without a technical justification, and it seems they are trying to justify a -1 on some policy by the Camel PMC that I for one are not aware of. We have discussed removing the camel console [1], but that discussion is insufficient to cover the case of adding a maven target to different console - its not being distributed as part of Apache Camel, its just making it easier to run if you want to. I understand the concerns about hawtio, but lets discuss that first - and on a different thread and get some formality into this please.
Rob [1] http://camel.465427.n5.nabble.com/DISCUSS-CAMEL-3-0-Does-camel-need-a-web-console-tt5726280.html#a5727053 On 29 Nov 2013, at 18:07, Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org> wrote: > > On Nov 28, 2013, at 8:42 AM, James Strachan <james.strac...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Should we back out the use of graphviz too? Do you think generating images >> for camel routes should be -1'd too? > > No. Graphviz is a graphics library. ALL the code for taking the camel > routes and feeding the information into graphiz lives in camel and is under > the Camel PMC control and direction. How the graph is presented to the user > is under the Camel PMC direction. Thus, it’s “OK”. > > In this case, all of the code for presenting the Camel UI is NOT in control > of the Camel PMC. It’s not part of Camel. It’s completely under the > control of an external party. That is NOT OK. > > If HawtIO was just a console framework (or whatever you want to call it) and > all of the “Camel” value-add was a plugin or was built upon that and that > code was in Camel, I’d have “less” of a concern (certain branding and links > and doc things would need to be resolved as well). Basically, if it was > like Spring where Spring has a core and all the camel value add stuff to > spring (namespace handlers, spring integration stuff, etc…) is part of Camel, > then it would be OK. > > So, in summary, if a user wants a nice graphics view of a Camel route, as far > as the Camel project goes, there are three options: > > 1) Claim it’s not an issue and do nothing….. It’s not one of our “itches” > for us to scratch. > > 2) Claim it is an issue, but outside the scope of our project and point > people the third party applications page we have on the website for options > that are available. > > 3) Expand the scope of Camel to include this, but in this case, it HAS to be > controlled, managed, documented, branded, etc…. completely by the Camel PMC. > How it’s presented to the user, etc… must be completely “Apache Camel”, not > hawtio or what ever. > > > Take your pick. > > Dan > > > >> On 28 November 2013 13:41, James Strachan <james.strac...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On 28 November 2013 13:32, Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> I’m -1 to this commit. I don’t think we should be adding a bunch of >>>> targets for all the various container/platform integrations. >>> >>> >>> If that were true I'd maybe -1 it too; but this commit looks to be about >>> making it easy for Camel users to visualise & debug Camel routes in a web >>> browser - from inside their existing maven camel project. i.e. its a camel >>> thing; just needs a web server to host some static HTML/CSS/JS (which is >>> purely an implementation detail). >>> >>> Though its nothing really to do with mimicking runtime platforms like >>> tomcat:run / karaf:run / jetty:run. >>> >>> -- >>> James >>> ------- >>> Red Hat >>> >>> Email: jstra...@redhat.com >>> Web: http://fusesource.com >>> Twitter: jstrachan, fusenews >>> Blog: http://macstrac.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> Open Source Integration >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> James >> ------- >> Red Hat >> >> Email: jstra...@redhat.com >> Web: http://fusesource.com >> Twitter: jstrachan, fusenews >> Blog: http://macstrac.blogspot.com/ >> >> Open Source Integration > > -- > Daniel Kulp > dk...@apache.org - http://dankulp.com/blog > Talend Community Coder - http://coders.talend.com Rob Davies ----------------- Red Hat, Inc Twitter: rajdavies Blog: http://rajdavies.blogspot.com ActiveMQ in Action: http://www.manning.com/snyder/
