On Nov 30, 2013, at 2:35 AM, Robert Davies <rajdav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It seems a couple of people are getting a head of themselves. > Firstly, the -1 vote of Dan and Hadrian are invalid without a technical > justification, and it seems they are trying to justify a -1 on some policy > by the Camel PMC that I for one are not aware of. Having no way for this PMC to control the display of the Camel route *IS* a technical justification. If we as a PMC wanted to remove columns, add new columns for new features, change the order of stuff, etc…. *WE* have no way to do so. Having no way to change the branding of what is displayed *IS* a technical justification. We cannot have links popping up and icons and such that promote something else. Having no way to remove all the “cruft” that is unrelated to Camel *IS* a technical justification. Claus’s screen shot on the wiki has an AcitveMQ tab, Wiki tab, etc… which would need to be removed if the goal is to have a Camel route display. That’s all technical justification. This needs to be removed until they can all be addressed. Oh… and the maven goal cannot be camel:hawtio. It would need to be camel:run-webconsole or similar to remove the branding part from that as well. Dan > We have discussed removing the camel console [1], but that discussion is > insufficient to cover the case of adding a maven target to different console > - its not being distributed as part of Apache Camel, its just making it > easier to run if you want to. I understand the concerns about hawtio, but > lets discuss that first - and on a different thread and get some formality > into this please. > > Rob > [1] > http://camel.465427.n5.nabble.com/DISCUSS-CAMEL-3-0-Does-camel-need-a-web-console-tt5726280.html#a5727053 > > On 29 Nov 2013, at 18:07, Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org> wrote: > >> >> On Nov 28, 2013, at 8:42 AM, James Strachan <james.strac...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Should we back out the use of graphviz too? Do you think generating images >>> for camel routes should be -1'd too? >> >> No. Graphviz is a graphics library. ALL the code for taking the camel >> routes and feeding the information into graphiz lives in camel and is under >> the Camel PMC control and direction. How the graph is presented to the >> user is under the Camel PMC direction. Thus, it’s “OK”. >> >> In this case, all of the code for presenting the Camel UI is NOT in control >> of the Camel PMC. It’s not part of Camel. It’s completely under the >> control of an external party. That is NOT OK. >> >> If HawtIO was just a console framework (or whatever you want to call it) and >> all of the “Camel” value-add was a plugin or was built upon that and that >> code was in Camel, I’d have “less” of a concern (certain branding and links >> and doc things would need to be resolved as well). Basically, if it was >> like Spring where Spring has a core and all the camel value add stuff to >> spring (namespace handlers, spring integration stuff, etc…) is part of >> Camel, then it would be OK. >> >> So, in summary, if a user wants a nice graphics view of a Camel route, as >> far as the Camel project goes, there are three options: >> >> 1) Claim it’s not an issue and do nothing….. It’s not one of our “itches” >> for us to scratch. >> >> 2) Claim it is an issue, but outside the scope of our project and point >> people the third party applications page we have on the website for options >> that are available. >> >> 3) Expand the scope of Camel to include this, but in this case, it HAS to be >> controlled, managed, documented, branded, etc…. completely by the Camel >> PMC. How it’s presented to the user, etc… must be completely “Apache >> Camel”, not hawtio or what ever. >> >> >> Take your pick. >> >> Dan >> >> >> >>> On 28 November 2013 13:41, James Strachan <james.strac...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On 28 November 2013 13:32, Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> I’m -1 to this commit. I don’t think we should be adding a bunch of >>>>> targets for all the various container/platform integrations. >>>> >>>> >>>> If that were true I'd maybe -1 it too; but this commit looks to be about >>>> making it easy for Camel users to visualise & debug Camel routes in a web >>>> browser - from inside their existing maven camel project. i.e. its a camel >>>> thing; just needs a web server to host some static HTML/CSS/JS (which is >>>> purely an implementation detail). >>>> >>>> Though its nothing really to do with mimicking runtime platforms like >>>> tomcat:run / karaf:run / jetty:run. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> James >>>> ------- >>>> Red Hat >>>> >>>> Email: jstra...@redhat.com >>>> Web: http://fusesource.com >>>> Twitter: jstrachan, fusenews >>>> Blog: http://macstrac.blogspot.com/ >>>> >>>> Open Source Integration >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> James >>> ------- >>> Red Hat >>> >>> Email: jstra...@redhat.com >>> Web: http://fusesource.com >>> Twitter: jstrachan, fusenews >>> Blog: http://macstrac.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> Open Source Integration >> >> -- >> Daniel Kulp >> dk...@apache.org - http://dankulp.com/blog >> Talend Community Coder - http://coders.talend.com > > Rob Davies > ----------------- > Red Hat, Inc > Twitter: rajdavies > Blog: http://rajdavies.blogspot.com > ActiveMQ in Action: http://www.manning.com/snyder/ > -- Daniel Kulp dk...@apache.org - http://dankulp.com/blog Talend Community Coder - http://coders.talend.com
