> That’s not optional. If you are an ASF project, mailing lists are the source of truth. Period.
Since when dictatorship becomes part of the culture in Apache Cassandra community? dic·ta·tor·ship dikˈtādərˌSHip,ˈdiktādərˌSHip/ *noun* 1. government by a dictator. "forty years of dictatorship" synonyms: absolute rule, undemocratic rule, despotism <https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+despotism&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1nJ33hsTOAhUL72MKHbv7DdAQ_SoIHzAA> , tyranny <https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+tyranny&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1nJ33hsTOAhUL72MKHbv7DdAQ_SoIIDAA> , autocracy <https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+autocracy&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1nJ33hsTOAhUL72MKHbv7DdAQ_SoIITAA> , autarchy <https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+autarchy&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1nJ33hsTOAhUL72MKHbv7DdAQ_SoIIjAA> ,authoritarianism, totalitarianism, fascism <https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+fascism&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1nJ33hsTOAhUL72MKHbv7DdAQ_SoIIzAA> ; More <https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+oppression&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1nJ33hsTOAhUL72MKHbv7DdAQ_SoIJTAA> <https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+repression&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1nJ33hsTOAhUL72MKHbv7DdAQ_SoIJjAA> <https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+democracy&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1nJ33hsTOAhUL72MKHbv7DdAQ_SoIJzAA> - a country governed by a dictator. plural noun: *dictatorships* synonyms: absolute rule, undemocratic rule, despotism <https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+despotism&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1nJ33hsTOAhUL72MKHbv7DdAQ_SoIKTAA> , tyranny <https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+tyranny&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1nJ33hsTOAhUL72MKHbv7DdAQ_SoIKjAA> , autocracy <https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+autocracy&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1nJ33hsTOAhUL72MKHbv7DdAQ_SoIKzAA> , autarchy <https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+autarchy&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1nJ33hsTOAhUL72MKHbv7DdAQ_SoILDAA> ,authoritarianism, totalitarianism, fascism <https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+fascism&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1nJ33hsTOAhUL72MKHbv7DdAQ_SoILTAA> ; More <https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+oppression&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1nJ33hsTOAhUL72MKHbv7DdAQ_SoILzAA> <https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+repression&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1nJ33hsTOAhUL72MKHbv7DdAQ_SoIMDAA> <https://www.google.ca/search?q=define+democracy&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1nJ33hsTOAhUL72MKHbv7DdAQ_SoIMTAA> - absolute authority in any sphere. On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Chris Mattmann <mattm...@apache.org> wrote: > I’m sorry but you are massively confused if you believe that the ASF > mailing lists > aren’t the source of truth. They are. That’s not optional. If you are an > ASF project, > mailing lists are the source of truth. Period. > > On 8/15/16, 11:01 AM, "Michael Kjellman" <mkjell...@internalcircle.com> > wrote: > > I'm a big fan of mailing lists, but google makes issues very findable > for new people to the project as JIRA gets indexed. They won't be able to > find the same thing on an email they didn't get -- because they weren't in > the project in the first place. > > Mailing lists are good for broad discussion or bringing specific > issues to the attention of the broader community. It should never be the > source of truth. > > best, > kjellman > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 15, 2016, at 2:57 PM, Chris Mattmann <mattm...@apache.org > <mailto:mattm...@apache.org>> wrote: > > Realize it’s not just about committers and PMC members that are > *already* > on the PMC or that are developing the project. It’s about how to > engage the > *entire* community including those that are not yet on the committer or > PMC roster. That is the future (and current) lifeblood of the project. > The mailing > list aren’t just an unfortunate necessity of being an Apache project. > They *are* > the lifeblood of the Apache project. > > > > On 8/15/16, 10:44 AM, "Brandon Williams" <dri...@gmail.com<mailto: > dri...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > I too, use this method quite a bit, almost every single day. > > On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 12:43 PM, Yuki Morishita < > mor.y...@gmail.com<mailto:mor.y...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > As an active committer, the most important thing for me is to be able > to *look up* design discussion and decision easily later. > > I often look up the git history or CHANGES.txt for changes that I'm > interested in, then look up JIRA by following JIRA ticket number > written to the comment or text. > If we move to dev mailing list, I would request to post permalink to > that thread posted to JIRA, which I think is just one extra step that > isn't necessary if we simply use JIRA. > > So, I'm +1 to just post JIRA link to dev list. > > > On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 12:35 PM, Chris Mattmann <mattm...@apache.org > <mailto:mattm...@apache.org>> > wrote: > This is a good outward flow of info to the dev list. However, there > needs to be > inward flow too – having the convo on the dev list will be a good start > to that. > I hope to see more inclusivity here. > > > > On 8/15/16, 10:26 AM, "Aleksey Yeschenko" <alek...@apache.org<mailto: > alek...@apache.org>> wrote: > > Well, if you read carefully what Jeremiah and I have just proposed, > it wouldn’t be an issue. > > The notable major changes would start off on dev@ (think, a > summary, a link to the JIRA, and maybe an attached spec doc). > > No need to follow the JIRA feed. Watch dev@ for those announcements > and start watching the invidual JIRA tickets if interested. > > This creates the least amount of noise: you miss nothing important, > and at the same time you won’t be receiving mail from > dev@ for each individual comment - including those on proposals you > don’t care about. > > We aren’t doing it currently, but we could, and probably should. > > -- > AY > > On 15 August 2016 at 18:22:36, Chris Mattmann (mattm...@apache.org > <mailto:mattm...@apache.org>) > wrote: > > Discussion belongs on the dev list. Putting discussion in JIRA, is > fine, but realize, > there is a lot of noise in that signal and people may or may not be > watching > the JIRA list. In fact, I don’t see JIRA sent to the dev list at all > so you are basically > forking the conversation to a high noise list by putting it all in > JIRA. > > > > > > On 8/15/16, 10:11 AM, "Aleksey Yeschenko" <alek...@apache.org > <mailto:alek...@apache.org>> > wrote: > > I too feel like it would be sufficient to announce those major JIRAs > on the dev@ list, but keep all discussion itself to JIRA, where it > belongs. > > You don’t need to follow every ticket this way, just subscribe to > dev@ and then start watching the select major JIRAs you care about. > > -- > AY > > On 15 August 2016 at 18:08:20, Jeremiah D Jordan ( > jeremiah.jor...@gmail.com<mailto:jeremiah.jor...@gmail.com>) wrote: > > I like keeping things in JIRA because then everything is in one > place, and it is easy to refer someone to it in the future. > But I agree that JIRA tickets with a bunch of design discussion and > POC’s and such in them can get pretty long and convoluted. > > I don’t really like the idea of moving all of that discussion to > email which makes it has harder to point someone to it. Maybe a better > idea > would be to have a “design/POC” JIRA and an “implementation” JIRA. > That way > we could still keep things in JIRA, but the final decision would be > kept > “clean”. > > Though it would be nice if people would send an email to the dev > list when proposing “design” JIRA’s, as not everyone has time to follow > every JIRA ever made to see that a new design JIRA was created that > they > might be interested in participating on. > > My 2c. > > -Jeremiah > > > On Aug 15, 2016, at 9:22 AM, Jonathan Ellis <jbel...@gmail.com<mailto: > jbel...@gmail.com>> > wrote: > > A long time ago, I was a proponent of keeping most development > discussions > on Jira, where tickets can be self contained and the threadless > nature > helps keep discussions from getting sidetracked. > > But Cassandra was a lot smaller then, and as we've grown it has > become > necessary to separate out the signal (discussions of new features > and major > changes) from the noise of routine bug reports. > > I propose that we take advantage of the dev list to perform that > separation. Major new features and architectural improvements > should be > discussed first here, then when consensus on design is achieved, > moved to > Jira for implementation and review. > > I think this will also help with the problem when the initial idea > proves > to be unworkable and gets revised substantially later after much > discussion. It can be difficult to figure out what the conclusion > was, as > review comments start to pile up afterwards. Having that > discussion on the > list, and summarizing on Jira, would mitigate this. > > -- > Jonathan Ellis > Project Chair, Apache Cassandra > co-founder, http://www.datastax.com > @spyced > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Yuki Morishita > t:yukim (http://twitter.com/yukim) > > > > > > > >
