On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Andrus Adamchik <[email protected]> wrote: > Besides the fact that the attention to Cayenne was attracted by the > "favorable mention in online articles" kind of proves the point that > marketing matters. If the project doesn't attempt to place itself on anyone's > radar, there will be no online articles. > > And of course nobody denies the need for improvement of the code and docs, > but that sort of goes without saying. While marketing requires us to pause > and think of the strategy.
+1 Actually reading from Cayenne on Twitter from time to time gives the impression this project is active. Same is true for regular blogposts. In addition, if I seen 10 posts on Cayenne and have no clue, I might get interested and read only one of them. Then I might decide to look at more, if I like it. Many blogposts also show that there is already community interest. This is crucial for many people, for example like me. I was kind of nervous before I decided to prefer Cayenne over Hibernate in my project, just because it was much more silent than Hibernate. Now I know better and I am glad, but not everybody has the chance to take such a "risk" (or want). I think good Javadocs are one side of a coin, a vibrant community is the other side. Both go hand in hand. Btw Jo - if I remember right, you have made a similar choice like I did in the past. Are you willing to share your experience? I might think this will make up a good blog post. If you don't run a blog, we can arrange some kind of an interview in my blog. Cheers Christian > > Andrus > > On Nov 8, 2011, at 1:03 AM, Aristedes Maniatis wrote: > >> On Mon Nov 7 23:01:18 2011, Durchholz, Joachim wrote: >>> Twitter and blogging won't help those who already use it, and those who >>> don't use it yet won't want to spend their time reading regular updates. >>> That said, it might be helpful for those who consider using it but haven't >>> found the time or resolve to actually do it; but these will be more >>> interested in what newbie Cayenne users have to say than in what the >>> developers think is the newest and greatest. >>> >>> What's important is to lower the entry barrier. >>> E.g. make Modeler intuitive to use and cover all aspects that could be >>> reasonably modelled. (My experience, as just one data point: I toyed with >>> it for half an afternoon and found it a bit hard to get a handle on it and >>> on what features it actually supports. Another detail might be that the >>> tool should announce itself with a phrase that allows people to decide what >>> they can and can't expect it to do; for example, that it is not supposed to >>> model everything that their database can, but everything that... well, no >>> idea what exactly its area of expertise should be.) >>> The documentation is actually great as an overview. It touches everything >>> one would ask when trying to determine what Cayenne can and cannot do. It >>> is frugal with details though. >>> >>> My advice would be to get Cayenne ahead. That's going to gain more >>> followers than trying to do anything marketing-wise - the marketing that >>> led to my current interest in Cayenne wasn't twitter feeds or blog posts, >>> it was favorable mention in online articles. >>> What's important is what Cayenne can and what it cannot (or will not) do. >>> Example projects would be nice; have a web service and a J2SE application >>> (one of each kind). Have the example projects touch every complication >>> once: long-running transactions, distributed commits, proxy objects, >>> optimistic update conflicts. In the famous words of Linus Torvalds: "Words >>> are cheap. Show me the code." (I have been bitten too many times by >>> believing some project's overhyped self description. I bet a lot of >>> developers out there share the experience, particularly those who are in a >>> position to advocate an architectural switch. Nothing that the developers >>> could write will help overcome that scepticism; only working code will, and >>> it won't convince, at best it will lower the barrier. I, for an example, >>> still haven't committed to Cayenne; the kinds of problems that show up in >>> the mailing list are currently making me a bit more sceptical. I'm simply >>> not prepared to spend several person-months >> on an experiment that may fail, my time budget does not allow this >> (unfortunately, I'd love to try Cayenne out).) >>> >>> Regards, >>> Jo >> >> Hi Jo >> >> Thanks for your comments. I am not quite sure what to make of them all, but >> perhaps a point of reference which would help us understand: what are you >> comparing Cayenne to? Hibernate? Something else? No ORM at all? >> >> I ask, because promoting Cayenne seems to fall into two categories: 1. >> Cayenne is a more suitable tool for the particular task than other ORMs, 2. >> You'll want to this this ORM thing instead of putting SQL into your code. >> >> They are quite different audiences for any messages we are trying to get out. >> >> Ari >> >> -- >> --------------------------> >> Aristedes Maniatis >> GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C 5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A >> > > -- http://www.grobmeier.de
