Just out of curiosity (not reading private) - has a cayenne twitter account been opened? is it discussed in private? Should/can I help with it?
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Christian Grobmeier <[email protected]> wrote: > On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Andrus Adamchik <[email protected]> > wrote: >> Besides the fact that the attention to Cayenne was attracted by the >> "favorable mention in online articles" kind of proves the point that >> marketing matters. If the project doesn't attempt to place itself on >> anyone's radar, there will be no online articles. >> >> And of course nobody denies the need for improvement of the code and docs, >> but that sort of goes without saying. While marketing requires us to pause >> and think of the strategy. > > +1 > > Actually reading from Cayenne on Twitter from time to time gives the > impression this project is active. Same is true for regular blogposts. > In addition, if I seen 10 posts on Cayenne and have no clue, I might > get interested and read only one of them. Then I might decide to look > at more, if I like it. > Many blogposts also show that there is already community interest. > This is crucial for many people, for example like me. I was kind of > nervous before I decided to prefer Cayenne over Hibernate in my > project, just because it was much more silent than Hibernate. Now I > know better and I am glad, but not everybody has the chance to take > such a "risk" (or want). > > I think good Javadocs are one side of a coin, a vibrant community is > the other side. Both go hand in hand. > > Btw Jo - if I remember right, you have made a similar choice like I > did in the past. Are you willing to share your experience? I might > think this will make up a good blog post. If you don't run a blog, we > can arrange some kind of an interview in my blog. > > Cheers > Christian > >> >> Andrus >> >> On Nov 8, 2011, at 1:03 AM, Aristedes Maniatis wrote: >> >>> On Mon Nov 7 23:01:18 2011, Durchholz, Joachim wrote: >>>> Twitter and blogging won't help those who already use it, and those who >>>> don't use it yet won't want to spend their time reading regular updates. >>>> That said, it might be helpful for those who consider using it but haven't >>>> found the time or resolve to actually do it; but these will be more >>>> interested in what newbie Cayenne users have to say than in what the >>>> developers think is the newest and greatest. >>>> >>>> What's important is to lower the entry barrier. >>>> E.g. make Modeler intuitive to use and cover all aspects that could be >>>> reasonably modelled. (My experience, as just one data point: I toyed with >>>> it for half an afternoon and found it a bit hard to get a handle on it and >>>> on what features it actually supports. Another detail might be that the >>>> tool should announce itself with a phrase that allows people to decide >>>> what they can and can't expect it to do; for example, that it is not >>>> supposed to model everything that their database can, but everything >>>> that... well, no idea what exactly its area of expertise should be.) >>>> The documentation is actually great as an overview. It touches everything >>>> one would ask when trying to determine what Cayenne can and cannot do. It >>>> is frugal with details though. >>>> >>>> My advice would be to get Cayenne ahead. That's going to gain more >>>> followers than trying to do anything marketing-wise - the marketing that >>>> led to my current interest in Cayenne wasn't twitter feeds or blog posts, >>>> it was favorable mention in online articles. >>>> What's important is what Cayenne can and what it cannot (or will not) do. >>>> Example projects would be nice; have a web service and a J2SE application >>>> (one of each kind). Have the example projects touch every complication >>>> once: long-running transactions, distributed commits, proxy objects, >>>> optimistic update conflicts. In the famous words of Linus Torvalds: "Words >>>> are cheap. Show me the code." (I have been bitten too many times by >>>> believing some project's overhyped self description. I bet a lot of >>>> developers out there share the experience, particularly those who are in a >>>> position to advocate an architectural switch. Nothing that the developers >>>> could write will help overcome that scepticism; only working code will, >>>> and it won't convince, at best it will lower the barrier. I, for an >>>> example, still haven't committed to Cayenne; the kinds of problems that >>>> show up in the mailing list are currently making me a bit more sceptical. >>>> I'm simply not prepared to spend several person-months >>> on an experiment that may fail, my time budget does not allow this >>> (unfortunately, I'd love to try Cayenne out).) >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Jo >>> >>> Hi Jo >>> >>> Thanks for your comments. I am not quite sure what to make of them all, but >>> perhaps a point of reference which would help us understand: what are you >>> comparing Cayenne to? Hibernate? Something else? No ORM at all? >>> >>> I ask, because promoting Cayenne seems to fall into two categories: 1. >>> Cayenne is a more suitable tool for the particular task than other ORMs, 2. >>> You'll want to this this ORM thing instead of putting SQL into your code. >>> >>> They are quite different audiences for any messages we are trying to get >>> out. >>> >>> Ari >>> >>> -- >>> --------------------------> >>> Aristedes Maniatis >>> GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C 5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A >>> >> >> > > > > -- > http://www.grobmeier.de > -- http://www.grobmeier.de
