currently have like the password server and userdata on the VyOS.
This means we would not have to change our architecture initially
and could focus on only replacing the networking paths.
*Will STEVENS*
Lead Developer
*CloudOps* *| *Cloud Solutions Experts
420 rue Guy *|* Montreal *|* Quebec *|* H3J 1S6 w cloudops.com *|*
tw @CloudOps_
On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 6:20 AM, Nux! <n...@li.nux.ro> wrote:
The more this is discussed the more I think we should stick with
our
VR.
All these other options either seem unfinished or with
incompatible license.
VyOS looks the most promising so far, it's a serious, mature project.
Adopting it though means we'll have to microservice our way out of
it
with
extra machines for DNS/USERDATA/etc, unless we can make VyOS serve
those
too. Imho this adds complexity we should void.
--
Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology!
Nux!
www.nux.ro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Will Stevens" <wstev...@cloudops.com>
To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
Sent: Thursday, 15 September, 2016 17:21:28
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Replacing the VR
Ya, we would need to add a daemon for VPN as well. Load
balancing is another aspect which we will need to consider if we
went this route.
Something like https://traefik.io/ could potentially be a good
fit
due
to
its API driven configuration, but it may be more than what we need.
We should probably try define which pieces make sense to be
solved
together
and which pieces would be best suited to be broken out.
I think the network connectivity, routing and firewalling should
probably
all stay together since the majority of the tools we would
potentially
use
would handle all of that together in a single implementation.
The password server and userdata seems like a good option for
being
broken
out and handled independently (and probably rewritten completely
since
they
currently have some issues).
Load balancing is another that could warrant splitting out, but
that depends on what direction we go and how we would be managing it.
DHCP
and
DNS are others which could go either way.
If we do split out services, I think we should consolidate as
much as
we
can into each service we break out. Ideally a network packet
would
never
hit more than one, maybe two, services. I don't think we should
be splitting services 'just because', I think we need a valid
case for splitting any service out because it adds complexity.
Our project is already complex enough, we need to avoid adding
complexity unless it
is
really needed.
Some more of my thoughts on this anyway...
*Will STEVENS*
Lead Developer
*CloudOps* *| *Cloud Solutions Experts
420 rue Guy *|* Montreal *|* Quebec *|* H3J 1S6 w cloudops.com
*|* tw @CloudOps_
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 10:28 AM, Simon Weller <swel...@ena.com>
wrote:
I do agree with you that this probably isn't the right place
the
password
service and user data.
Having said that, after taking a cursory look at the dev docs,
it
doesn't
seem that difficult to add new daemons:
https://opensnaproute.github.
io/docs/developer.html#creating-new-component
<https://opensnaproute.github.io/docs/developer.html#
creating-new-component>
They've definitely build it with a microservices architecture
in
mind,
so
each individual feature is abstracted into it's own small
daemon
process.
We could just create a daemon for the password server and the
userdata
components if we really had to.
- Si
________________________________
From: williamstev...@gmail.com <williamstev...@gmail.com> on
behalf
of
Will Stevens <wstev...@cloudops.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:17 AM
To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Replacing the VR
A big part of why I know about it is because it is written in Go.
:P
Yes, it is definitely interesting for the routing and traffic
handling
aspects of the VR. We will likely have to rethink some of the
pieces
a
little bit like the password server and userdata if we are to
adopt
a
different VR approach. This is where I think some of JohnB and
Chiradeep's
ideas make sense. In many ways, it does not make sense for the
device
handling routing and network traffic to also be responsible for
passwords
and userdata.
*Will STEVENS*
Lead Developer
*CloudOps* *| *Cloud Solutions Experts
420 rue Guy *|* Montreal *|* Quebec *|* H3J 1S6 w cloudops.com
*|* tw @CloudOps_
On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 9:10 AM, Simon Weller <swel...@ena.com>
wrote:
I hadn't heard of Flexswitch until you mentioned it. It looks
pretty
cool!
It even supports ONIE install.
To be honest, the ipsec feature could be added, or we could
offload
it to
separate vm if we needed to. The fact it is so feature rich
from a
routing
perspective (and all API driven) is really nice.
Based on the roadmap, it looks like they plan to also support
capabilities
such as BGP-MPLS based L3VPN, EVPN, VPLS in the future. This
will
be
huge
for our carrier community that rely on these technologies to
do
private
gateway and inter-VPC interconnections today. We handle this
stuff
on
our
ASRs right now with a vlan interconnect into the VR. Being
able to
do
MPLS
all the way to the VR would be awesome.
It also seems to be written in GO (a language here at ENA we
know
very
well).
- Si
________________________________
From: Will Stevens <williamstev...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 7:06 AM
To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Replacing the VR
Ya. I don't think it covers our whole use case, but what it
does
cover is
all api driven...
On Sep 15, 2016 1:48 AM, "Marty Godsey" <ma...@gonsource.com>
wrote:
Though I don’t see VPN in Snaproute.. Makes sense since it
was
not
intended to do IPSec.
It seems as though VyOS is starting to look like the best
option.
Regards,
Marty Godsey
nSource Solutions
-----Original Message-----
From: williamstev...@gmail.com
[mailto:williamstev...@gmail.com
]
On
Behalf Of Will Stevens
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:06 PM
To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Replacing the VR
Or we could go completely crazy and go with something like
FlexSwitch
from
SnapRoute
- http://www.snaproute.com/
- https://opensnaproute.github.io/docs/apis.html
*Will STEVENS*
Lead Developer
*CloudOps* *| *Cloud Solutions Experts
420 rue Guy *|* Montreal *|* Quebec *|* H3J 1S6 w
cloudops.com
*|*
tw
@CloudOps_
On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 10:55 PM, Will Stevens <
wstev...@cloudops.com>
wrote:
I tend to agree with Syed and Marty. I am not sure what
problems
are
solved by splitting up the function of the VR into a
bunch of
separate
services. As Syed points out, the complexity added is
non-trivial.
We now have to manage all the intercontainer networking
as
well
as
the
orchestrated ACS networking.
VyOS is interesting to me because it covers the majority
of
our
use
case with a single unified control plane. It also has
good
support
for extending features we care about, like IPv6, VXLAN,
VRRP, transactions, etc...
*Will STEVENS*
Lead Developer
*CloudOps* *| *Cloud Solutions Experts
420 rue Guy *|* Montreal *|* Quebec *|* H3J 1S6 w
cloudops.com
*|*
tw
@CloudOps_
On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 9:49 PM, Syed Ahmed <
sah...@cloudops.com>
wrote:
Agree with Marty, adding Docker containers to the
picture
although
can make the VR more flexible but the added complexity
is
just
not
worth it. Not to mention we would need to take care of
networking
each container manually and given that our iptable rules
are
very
unstable at the moment I don't see a big value add.
Vyos looks like a better solution to me. I know that it
does
not
provide an api but it does fit the bill quite well
otherwise. I
specially like the fact that it has a transaction based
model
and
you
can rollback changes if something goes wrong.
On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 9:06 PM Marty Godsey <
ma...@gonsource.com>
wrote:
Licensing aside, I think splitting the various
functions
into
containers is not a good route either. This will force
users
to
have to maintain
and
use containers and adds complexity to the networking
aspects
of
ACS.
Complexity decreases stability. Now I understand the
argument
that
a monolithic approach also brings its own set of
issues but
it
also
simplifies it.
Regards,
Marty Godsey
nSource Solutions
-----Original Message-----
From: Chiradeep Vittal [mailto:chirade...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 5:37 PM
To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Replacing the VR
I rather doubt that the Cloudrouter will fit the needs
of
the
CloudStack project
- it is AGPL licensed. Many enterprises will not
touch
anything
that
has
AGPL
- the github repo shows rather infrequent updates.
Quite
likely
they aren't considering the use cases of the
CloudStack
community
I'd back John B's comments on disaggregating the VR.
Split
it
into
many docker containers
- password server
- userdata server
- DHCP / DNS
- s2s VPN
- RA VPN
- intra-VPC routing and ACL
- Port forwarding + NAT
- FW
- LB (public)
- LB (internal),
- secondary storage
- agent
Glue them together with docker compose files (one per
use
case -
basic zone, isolated, VPC, SSVM, etc).
The VR image then becomes a JeOS + docker. You can
test
each
of
the
components independently and fixing one bug in the
field
(say
DHCP)
is hitless to the other components. You don't need to
build per-hypervisor VRs. You could even run on baremetal.
Along the way you need to figure out how to
- make the traffic traverse the containers that are
needed
to
be
traversed (in most cases just 1)
- bootstrap the router (how does it find its compose file?
where
is the
registry?)
- rethink the command and control of the VR
functions. SSH
works,
but something more declarative, idempotent should be
explored.
As you do this, it becomes clearer which of the
functions
can
be
substituted by for example CloudRouter. Command and
Control
of
the
docker
containers can be moved out to another container. Etc.
On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 12:59 AM, Marty Godsey
<ma...@gonsource.com>
wrote:
This one does look nice. My biggest concern is the
lack
of
VXLANs. It seems that any of the ones we mentioned
do not
have
an
API so we may be stuck at the SSH method.
Regards,
Marty Godsey
nSource Solutions
-----Original Message-----
From: Abhinandan Prateek
[mailto:abhinandan.prat...@shapeblue.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 2:26 AM
To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Replacing the VR
Cloudrouter looks promising. These have potential to
save
future
engineering effort for example on ipv6 routing, OSPF etc.
And the best part is they come with test automation
framework.
On 13/09/16, 4:22 PM, "Jayapal Uradi"
<jayapal.ur...@accelerite.com>
wrote:
Hi,
Instead of replacing the VR in first place we
should add VyOS/cloudrouter
as provider. Once it is stable, network offerings
(on
upgrade)
can be updated to use it and we can drop the VR if
we
want
at
that release
onwards.
VR is stabilized over a period of time and some of
them
are
running
without issues. When we replicate the ACS VR
features in
new
solution it takes some to find the missing pieces
(hidden
bugs).
Thanks,
Jayapal
On Sep 13, 2016, at 2:52 PM, Nux! <
n...@li.nux.ro> wrote:
Hi,
I like the idea.
Cloudrouter looks really promising, I'm not too
keen
on
VyOS
(it
doesn't have a proper http api etc).
--
Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology!
Nux!
www.nux.ro
abhinandan.prat...@shapeblue.com
www.shapeblue.com<http://www.shapeblue.com>
53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden, London WC2N 4HSUK
@shapeblue
----- Original Message -----
From: "Will Stevens" <williamstev...@gmail.com>
To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
Sent: Monday, 12 September, 2016 21:20:11
Subject: [DISCUSS] Replacing the VR
*Disclaimer:* This is a thought experiment and
should
be
treated as
such.
Please weigh in with the good and bad of this idea...
A couple of us have been discussing the idea of
potentially
replacing the ACS VR with the VyOS [1] (Open
Source
Vyatta
VM).
There may be a license issue because I think it
is
licensed
under GPL, but for the sake of discussion, let's
assume
we
can overcome any
license issues.
I have spent some time recently with the VyOS
and I
have
to
admit, I was pretty impressed. It is simple and
intuitive
and it gives you a lot more options for auditing
the
configuration etc...
Items of potential interest:
- Clean up our current VR script spaghetti to a
simpler
more
auditable configuration workflow.
- Gives a cleaner path for IPv6 support.
- Handles VPN configuration via the same
configuration
interface.
