Thanks to Bob for adding Quick Links to the header menu. Getting to JIRA is now too quick clicks. (I had added this myself during development but it was buggy. I dunno why it is no longer buggy. Very strange!)
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 9:13 PM, Noah Slater <[email protected]> wrote: > I have added your Markmail point to the wiki. > > > On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 9:10 PM, Noah Slater <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Miles Fidelman < >> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> With all due respect and appreciation for your efforts.... marketing is >>> one thing, utility is another. While there's value to marketing, (IMHO) >>> utility counts more. We're not talking about a magazine ad, we're talking >>> about a web site that people have taken some effort to find and go to - >>> they're (we're) looking for information - if the information isn't there, >>> it doesn't matter how pretty the site is. >>> >> >> I've been building websites for clients for the best part of a decade, so >> I assure you that I understand your points here. ;) When I said "a >> marketing site" I meant that it's primary purpose is to market CouchDB to >> new users. Not that we should think of it as a print ad. Trust me, I have >> worked with people who do think about websites like this, and I know how >> crazy that attitude is. >> >> >> >>> For evaluators (and I do a lot of software evaluation), the questions >>> are: >>> - what is this thing >>> - what are the details (functionality, architecture, implementation) >>> - is the project "alive" (not in terms of a pretty site, but in terms of >>> an active community of users and developers) - which implies things that >>> change (blog, news, events, mailing lists with lots of activity, bug >>> tracker that shows things getting fixed, ....) >>> - who's using it >>> - details of what's involved in using it (demo, install instructions, >>> documentation, some slideshows) >>> - a sense of the community (blog, archives, forums, links to related >>> sites) >>> >> >> Agreed! >> >> >>> For new users, what counts are documentation, tutorials, FAQs, an active >>> and friendly support community. >>> >> >> Agreed, I think we could add a new section. This is already on the wiki. >> >> http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/Website_Design >> >> I am starting to wonder if anyone is even checking this page! ;) >> >> No body has added anything to it since I created it, and yet this thread >> rages on. ;) >> >> >>> For experienced users, updates, detailed documentation, code libraries >>> (when users are developing stuff), support for odd problems, ... >>> >> >> This belongs on the wiki for now. >> >> The website is a single serving website. >> >> That is intentional, and I'd like to keep it that way. >> >> The wiki should be our primary focus for detailed information. >> >> >>> For contributors it becomes a matter of technical documentation, >>> community, easy-to-access CVS and bugtraq, lists and community.... >>> >> >> Contributors should be focusing on the wiki too IMO. The "marketing site" >> or "homepage" or whatever you want to call our single serving website is >> not a one stop shop for everything to do with CouchDB. It's a primer, an >> intro, a landing page, a set of sign posts. Committers should know enough >> about the project to be able to use bookmarks, and use the wiki to provide >> more in-depth resources/links. >> >> >>> Sure, all the better if the stuff looks pretty, but more important that >>> things are there and EASY TO FIND (I emphasize this last point as it seems >>> to be the primary criticism people are raising. Most of the other things >>> exist, somewhere - it's finding them that's difficult.) >>> >> >> Just to clarify, it is ONE person who is saying that the JIRA link is >> hard to find. And that one person is a committer. It just so happens that >> our user focused single serving website has moved his usual "link to get me >> JIRA" out of the way, and he's annoyed about it. I can understand that, but >> I am also trying to keep his concerns in context. >> >> >>> Mind you, I'm more of a function over form kind of guy, and a sample of >>> one, but when I lay the mongodb web site next to the couchdb web site >>> (since people seem to compare the two pieces of software quite a bit), the >>> mongo home page is uglier, but a lot easier to navigate. >>> >> >> The MongoDB website is easier to navigate? Heh. Ours is one page. By >> definition, there is no navigation, just scrolling. ;) Perhaps you mean >> that the sign posts to other resources are clearer. Again, all we've done >> is move our sign posts to the bottom of the page. We are, clearly, >> optimising for a specific use case here. Joe Random clicking on a link, and >> asking "WTF IS COUCHDB?" We answer that quite well, I think. Or at least, >> better than we used to. And there is certainly room for improvement. We >> could cram all of our project signposts in to the header, but we would be >> sacrificing the simplicity of the site, and the key focus on "WTF IS >> COUCHDB?" and "WHERE DO I DOWNLOAD?" >> >> >>> One thing that disturbed me, was a comment that there's no link to the >>> markmail archive because it's not "official." That seems like a rather >>> unproductive approach to building and supporting a user community - links >>> to other resources should be encouraged, not discouraged - both as a way to >>> make the main site useful, and as a sign that the community is "alive." >> >> >> You have misinterpreted me. "Unofficial" resources are great! But with a >> single serving site you have to make some trade-offs in the name of >> simplicity. We have, in the design, a single link to the web interfaces for >> the mailing lists. So we have, naturally, chosen to link to the official >> ASF web interface. The Markmail links deserve a mention, but not here. >> There are other places we can promote them. >> > >
