> I’m suggesting a way how we can adopt a proven way > If that makes you want to unsubscribe, farewell.
That is exactly what I called iron ordnung. Extreme unfriendliness is only allowed for your here, Jan. The one thing I fear now is that people are afraid to say ‘but’, or take a contrarian position in general. How can we avoid that? Without phrases ‘You don‘t like it? Farewell’, surely. ermouth 2015-09-14 15:26 GMT+03:00 Jan Lehnardt <[email protected]>: > Of course, this could have gone this way: > > “That’s an interesting approach, is there more literature on how and why > this is supposed to work?” > “Here’s a bunch of links: …” > “Gotcha, the one thing I fear now is that people are afraid to say ‘but’, > or take a contrarian position in general. How can we avoid that?” > “I think it comes back to trust, if we all trust each other, that we have > the best of the project in mind, we shouldn’t have a problem disagreeing > with each other.” > > But then again, that would be a sign of the method working… > > Best > Jan > -- > > > > On 14 Sep 2015, at 14:15, ermouth <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Well, next good step is to write it in CoC. Something like “Starting post > > with ‘But’ is unwelcomed here’. You surely attract tons of contributors > > with this. > > > > As for me the only desire after reading this is not to subscribe, but to > > unsubscribe. Imposed iron ordnung is surely far more uncomfortable, then > > posts, starting with ‘but‘. > > > > Also I see this policy just leave important questions undiscussed – > nobody > > dare to say ‘but’. > > > > > > ermouth > > > > 2015-09-14 13:52 GMT+03:00 Jan Lehnardt <[email protected]>: > > > >> > >>> On 14 Sep 2015, at 12:08, Alexander Shorin <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Jan > >>> > >>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2015 at 12:57 PM, Jan Lehnardt <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> We agreed on a “Yes and…”-style of feedback, and it looks like that we > >>>> are defaulting to a “But…”-style feedback. > >>> > >>> Could you explain what are "Yes and..." and "But..." feedback styles > >>> and how they are different? > >> > >> Sure, I had hoped that just mentioning this recalls our previous > >> discussions. Here’s an example (sorry Michelle for picking on your > example > >> here, but it was freshest in my mind. In general, I don’t mean to > re-play > >> this as it happened on dev@, and I don’t want to single out anyone in > >> particular, so I changed things a little): > >> > >> > >> “But…”-style: > >> > >> “Hey, let’s create a design@ mailing list for designers.” > >> > >> “That’s a bad idea, we already have www@ and nobody uses that.” > >> > >> “…” > >> > >> <after a few of these, the person with the original suggestion leaves > the > >> project> > >> > >> > >> > >> “Yes, and…”-style: > >> > >> “Hey, let’s create a design@ mailing list for designers.” > >> > >> “That’s an interesting idea: safe spaces are important! We still have > the > >> somewhat dormant (which is a different discussion) www@ mailing list > for > >> website stuff, have you considered repurposing this?” > >> > >> “Ah, good call, maybe that works, but I feel www@ isn’t as inviting a > >> name as design@ is.” > >> > >> “I can understand that. If we go down that path, what would be even more > >> inviting than a design@ mailing list? I can imagine that our mailing > list > >> system is not very approachable for designers to begin with, maybe we > >> should look at a Discourse instance or a Slack channel?“ > >> > >> <fruitful conversation continues> > >> > >> * * * > >> > >> If your read this and thing “golly, ‘But…’-style is a lot more > efficient, > >> we don’t have a lot of people contributing in the first place, so > cutting > >> these discussions short is brilliant”, just know that our #1 purpose as > a > >> project must be to attract more contributors. Having more contributors > is > >> the #1 thing that makes sure CouchDB is a long-term success. It makes > sure > >> that individuals don’t burn out, it helps with more diverse ideas making > >> the project better, it helps get us more stuff done overall. Long-term, > it > >> doesn’t matter if 2.0 is delayed by a couple of more weeks, but it does > >> matter if the people who help shipping 2.0 leave the project right > after, > >> because it was such a burden to do that they lost interest or simply > burned > >> out. > >> > >> * * * > >> > >> Best > >> Jan > >> -- > >> > >> > >> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> ,,,^..^,,, > >> > >> -- > >> Professional Support for Apache CouchDB: > >> http://www.neighbourhood.ie/couchdb-support/ > >> > >> > > -- > Professional Support for Apache CouchDB: > http://www.neighbourhood.ie/couchdb-support/ > >
