Ah, good research there Joan. +1 to Donat’s suggestion to drop support for 19 from me.
Adam > On Jan 22, 2021, at 4:49 PM, Joan Touzet <woh...@apache.org> wrote: > > On 2021-01-22 4:37 p.m., Robert Newson wrote: >> Innnnteresting. I’m actually surprised at the inversion here (that CouchDB >> is dependent on IBM to confirm CouchDB’s stability). I’ve always agonised >> over even the perception that IBM/Cloudant is calling the shots. I >> appreciate the reassurance that running at scale provides, of course, I just >> don’t think it can be our official position. > > It's a tough one. I was pretty aggressive on CouchDB running the very latest > until the scheduler collapse problem surfaced. After that, there was another > problem (I can't recall) that was pretty serious too. I took a wait-and-see > attitude at that point, and after I didn't see IBM move forward to a newer > release, didn't move forward ourselves. Looks like we ended up in deadlock! > > However! See your own comments on this: > > https://github.com/apache/couchdb/issues/3115#issuecomment-729031967 > > I knew there was something at the back of my head on this. Guess we're both > getting old ;) > >> On the core point of the thread, it seems there’s no barrier to dropping >> Erlang 19 support, so I think we can go to a VOTE thread, perhaps best to >> wait till Monday for others to chime in on this discussion though. > > More important is that we already committed changes on the main repo re: > Erlang 19 about 14 months ago by Paul: > > https://github.com/apache/couchdb/commit/3594f2f1fc16903c1c383ebaf205d31c9c17fb3a > > I think that makes Donat's request pretty straightforward. > >> I also think that IBM Cloudant’s chosen Erlang release is in part influenced >> by CouchDB’s lack of support for later versions and requirement of >> compatible with older releases, which now appears illusory. > > If we're ready to move to 21 or 22 as a default, we're ready. Let's hope the > serious issues in 21/22 are at least mitigated. I'm happy to make the 3.3 > release (or whatever is next) use the very latest version of 21 or 22 from > GitHub, subject to community recommendations and encouragement. 23 is still a > WIP: https://github.com/apache/couchdb/issues/3115 > > -Jon > >> B. >>> On 22 Jan 2021, at 21:19, Joan Touzet <woh...@apache.org> wrote: >>> >>> On 22/01/2021 15:48, Robert Newson wrote: >>>> I’m +1 on dropping Erlang 19 support. Erlang is now on major release 23. >>> >>> No problem here. >>> >>>> I’d further advocate a general policy of supporting only the most recent 2 >>>> or 3 major releases of Erlang/OTP. >>>> >>>> The main (I think only?) reason to keep compatibility so far back is >>>> because of the versions supported by some OS’es. I don’t feel that is a >>>> strong reason given the couchdb install, in common with Erlang-based >>>> projects, is self-contained. The existence of Erlang Solutions packages >>>> for all common platforms is also a factor. >>> >>> That hasn't been the case for at least 2 years, if not longer. >>> >>> As the release engineer, I've been focused on stability for everyone. >>> This is largely driven by knowing that IBM/Cloudant largely run CouchDB >>> on 20.x at scale. Standing on the shoulders of giants, our releases run >>> the latest 20.x release at the time of binary generation. >>> >>> A few times recently issues cropped up in 21 and 22 that we didn't >>> encounter in our user base because, at scale, we are deployed on >>> 20.3.8.something. Some of these issues were non-trivial. (I'm off today, >>> so I don't have the time to dig into the specifics until Monday.) >>> >>> So my $0.02 is that: if IBM/Cloudant is ready to move to something newer >>> at scale, I'm ready to release binaries on a newer Erlang by default. >>> >>> The alternative (running newer Erlangs in the binary distributions than >>> IBM/Cloudant run in production) could possibly be perceived as treating >>> our open source customers as guinea pigs. I'd rather not risk that >>> perception, but am willing to be convinced otherwise. >>> >>> -Joan >>> >>>> >>>> B. >>>> >>>>> On 22 Jan 2021, at 19:54, Bessenyei Balázs Donát <bes...@apache.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> >>>>> CI for https://github.com/apache/couchdb-config appears to be broken. >>>>> I wanted to fix it in >>>>> https://github.com/apache/couchdb-config/pull/34/files , but I'm >>>>> getting issues with erlang 19. Are we okay with dropping 19 support >>>>> there? >>>>> >>>>> On a different note: are we okay with dropping erlang 19 support >>>>> overall in couch project(s)? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you, >>>>> Donat >>>>
