Thank you all for the input! I'll remove erlang 19 for `couchdb-config` and we'll be able to refer to this thread when we have to remove it anywhere else.
Donat On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 10:09 PM Adam Kocoloski <kocol...@apache.org> wrote: > > Ah, good research there Joan. +1 to Donat’s suggestion to drop support for 19 > from me. > > Adam > > > On Jan 22, 2021, at 4:49 PM, Joan Touzet <woh...@apache.org> wrote: > > > > On 2021-01-22 4:37 p.m., Robert Newson wrote: > >> Innnnteresting. I’m actually surprised at the inversion here (that CouchDB > >> is dependent on IBM to confirm CouchDB’s stability). I’ve always agonised > >> over even the perception that IBM/Cloudant is calling the shots. I > >> appreciate the reassurance that running at scale provides, of course, I > >> just don’t think it can be our official position. > > > > It's a tough one. I was pretty aggressive on CouchDB running the very > > latest until the scheduler collapse problem surfaced. After that, there was > > another problem (I can't recall) that was pretty serious too. I took a > > wait-and-see attitude at that point, and after I didn't see IBM move > > forward to a newer release, didn't move forward ourselves. Looks like we > > ended up in deadlock! > > > > However! See your own comments on this: > > > > https://github.com/apache/couchdb/issues/3115#issuecomment-729031967 > > > > I knew there was something at the back of my head on this. Guess we're both > > getting old ;) > > > >> On the core point of the thread, it seems there’s no barrier to dropping > >> Erlang 19 support, so I think we can go to a VOTE thread, perhaps best to > >> wait till Monday for others to chime in on this discussion though. > > > > More important is that we already committed changes on the main repo re: > > Erlang 19 about 14 months ago by Paul: > > > > https://github.com/apache/couchdb/commit/3594f2f1fc16903c1c383ebaf205d31c9c17fb3a > > > > I think that makes Donat's request pretty straightforward. > > > >> I also think that IBM Cloudant’s chosen Erlang release is in part > >> influenced by CouchDB’s lack of support for later versions and requirement > >> of compatible with older releases, which now appears illusory. > > > > If we're ready to move to 21 or 22 as a default, we're ready. Let's hope > > the serious issues in 21/22 are at least mitigated. I'm happy to make the > > 3.3 release (or whatever is next) use the very latest version of 21 or 22 > > from GitHub, subject to community recommendations and encouragement. 23 is > > still a WIP: https://github.com/apache/couchdb/issues/3115 > > > > -Jon > > > >> B. > >>> On 22 Jan 2021, at 21:19, Joan Touzet <woh...@apache.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> On 22/01/2021 15:48, Robert Newson wrote: > >>>> I’m +1 on dropping Erlang 19 support. Erlang is now on major release 23. > >>> > >>> No problem here. > >>> > >>>> I’d further advocate a general policy of supporting only the most recent > >>>> 2 or 3 major releases of Erlang/OTP. > >>>> > >>>> The main (I think only?) reason to keep compatibility so far back is > >>>> because of the versions supported by some OS’es. I don’t feel that is a > >>>> strong reason given the couchdb install, in common with Erlang-based > >>>> projects, is self-contained. The existence of Erlang Solutions packages > >>>> for all common platforms is also a factor. > >>> > >>> That hasn't been the case for at least 2 years, if not longer. > >>> > >>> As the release engineer, I've been focused on stability for everyone. > >>> This is largely driven by knowing that IBM/Cloudant largely run CouchDB > >>> on 20.x at scale. Standing on the shoulders of giants, our releases run > >>> the latest 20.x release at the time of binary generation. > >>> > >>> A few times recently issues cropped up in 21 and 22 that we didn't > >>> encounter in our user base because, at scale, we are deployed on > >>> 20.3.8.something. Some of these issues were non-trivial. (I'm off today, > >>> so I don't have the time to dig into the specifics until Monday.) > >>> > >>> So my $0.02 is that: if IBM/Cloudant is ready to move to something newer > >>> at scale, I'm ready to release binaries on a newer Erlang by default. > >>> > >>> The alternative (running newer Erlangs in the binary distributions than > >>> IBM/Cloudant run in production) could possibly be perceived as treating > >>> our open source customers as guinea pigs. I'd rather not risk that > >>> perception, but am willing to be convinced otherwise. > >>> > >>> -Joan > >>> > >>>> > >>>> B. > >>>> > >>>>> On 22 Jan 2021, at 19:54, Bessenyei Balázs Donát <bes...@apache.org> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi All, > >>>>> > >>>>> CI for https://github.com/apache/couchdb-config appears to be broken. > >>>>> I wanted to fix it in > >>>>> https://github.com/apache/couchdb-config/pull/34/files , but I'm > >>>>> getting issues with erlang 19. Are we okay with dropping 19 support > >>>>> there? > >>>>> > >>>>> On a different note: are we okay with dropping erlang 19 support > >>>>> overall in couch project(s)? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you, > >>>>> Donat > >>>> >
