Hi, I have been following the mailing list from the start and I am still on the fence between choosing Flex, going the javascript way, sticking to the Java way of doing things (jsf with a framework like Primefaces can serve a lot of purposes) or look for another option.
JavaFX shows promise from a technical point of view (databinding is way too cumbersome though) but will it ever catch on? Dart as a language and development ecosystem is evolving quite nicely but is lacking a powerful set of out of the box GUI components. Their web component library is also actively being developed but again, this will take another year or two to evolve to a state comparable to that of Flex imo. Typescript or javascript Harmony could be promising in combination with Web Components but still a lot of work has to be done. >From my point of view (building enterprise applications with a Java back end) the following combination of properties are important to Flex 1. Like Om: Access to a real object oriented language. Makes code maintenance a lot easier. And it is build into the language, no need to choose a framework to tho this. This is a major one. 2. A nice component based model with easy databinding using MXML. The fact that you can define a component in MXML and have it immediately integrated in your development ecosystem is a major bonus. How long will it take for web components to reach that level? 3. Fluent connection to a server backend thanks to Granite Data Services (we use Spring) and the AMF protocol. 4. Web based 5. From time to time the ease of plugging in certain interactivity is second to none with Flex. We needed a charting component that shows several data lines (not to big a deal with recent js frameworks) but in orde to increase productivity the users desperately wanted to drag and drop datapoints in these charts to adjust their forecasts. This was pretty easy to achieve with Flex. 6. It builds around a standard. 7. The fact that item renderers / item editors are built into the framework. From time to time you see a plea to add virtual components to the web components specification ... I expect that next versions of javascript in combination with HTML 5 and Web components will achieve the same level of development and maintenance experience (or better, mutation observers spring to mind). But it will take a lot of time to get there. The same applies to Dart if it ever succeeds,which I hope it does. regards Johan On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 11:53 PM, Om <bigosma...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Alex Harui <aha...@adobe.com> wrote: > > > Thanks Om and others who posted links, it is always rewarding to me to > see > > these end products. > > > > So, it looks like print and photo publishers, paint manufacturers and > > video/video conferencing providers have chosen Flex. My next question > is: > > why? > > > These the kind of of apps that are consumer focused and hence publicly > reachable. I wish we could show the numerous enterprise apps Flex > developers have built over the years. > > > > > Honestly, I have a hard time telling if there is some key aspect of > > the site that made Flex the better choice over HTML, especially if you > had > > to start today. > > > > Here are the reasons for chosing Flex over HTML/JS in my point of view. > > 1. Works same across all browsers and major operating systems. Reduces > development and QA efforts. > 2. Access to a real object oriented language. Makes code maintenance a > lot easier. > 3. Multiple concurrent file uploads. > 4. True vector graphics and bitmap processing. > 5. Access to local file system > 6. Access to a real profiler > 7. Integration with Maven > 8. Integration with an established unit testing framework (FlexUnit) > 9. Runtime performance (from my personal experience) is better > 10. Access to TLF which is supported by Indesign as well (print fidelity > is very important for web to print solutions) > 11. Test automation (there are pain points, but works well for most cases) > 12. Flex is not just a collection of great components/effects/styles, it > is a fully extensible framework and an SDK. Cant beat that. > 13. Can deploy as a desktop or mobile app with negligible extra work. (If > the app is architected with this in mind) > 14. Access to microphone and camera > 15. Local storage support that is expandable if user agrees. > > I can go on, but I will stop here. Most apps I build need almost all of > the above mentioned features. I am sure that you can come up with a > sorta-can-do for each item above in any given JS framework or a latest > version of chrome or a nightly build of firefox. But if you want all of > the above and want to have them same across browsers and operating systems, > Flex is the way to go. > > > > > When I saw Nick's revamp of our site, I thought it was > > visually on the same level as these sites. > > > > > That is an apples to oranges comparison. We are talking about using Flex > to create web applications, not designing websites. I wouldnt recommend > using Flex for building websites. > > Thanks, > Om > > > > > > > On 2/5/13 12:24 PM, "Om" <bigosma...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > I got these off of the apache flex wikipedia page: > > > > > > https://www.sherwin-williams.com/visualizer/# > > > http://www.chesscube.com/play/app/ (app is seen, but need to register > to > > > play) > > > http://demo.bigbluebutton.org/ (Enter your name and click "Join") > > > http://www.hbogo.com > > > http://www.behr.com, > > > > > > http://www.behr.com/Behr/home#view=14;channel=EXPLORE;vgnextoid=6bd8ea6621ca51 > > > 10VgnVCM1000008119fea9RCRD > > > > > > Om > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Om <bigosma...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > >> Here is one public facing Flex app by Snapfish: > > >> > > >> http://bit.ly/VReNum > > >> > > >> Om > > >> > > >> > > >> On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Roland Zwaga < > rol...@stackandheap.com > > >wrote: > > >> > > >>> ok, on third try it worked, hopefully it was just a glitch then :) > > >>> > > >>> On 5 February 2013 20:59, Alex Harui <aha...@adobe.com> wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> Both links worked for me on Mac Safari. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> On 2/5/13 11:57 AM, "Roland Zwaga" <rol...@stackandheap.com> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> I wasn't implying you should fix the bug :) > > >>>>> > > >>>>> But we do have to make sure that all of the apps we're listing > > >>> actually > > >>>>> work :) > > >>>>> > > >>>>> On 5 February 2013 20:54, Om <bigosma...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> Well, did you contact customer service? ;-) Sorry, I am not > > involved > > >>>> with > > >>>>>> this app anymore. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Roland Zwaga < > > >>> rol...@stackandheap.com > > >>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> When I try the first link I immediately get this error after the > > >>>>>>> application loaded: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> We are sorry you are having problems. To contact Shutterfly > > customer > > >>>>>>> service: > > >>>>>>> Email: customerserv...@cs.shutterfly.com > > >>>>>>> Phone: 1-888-225-7159 > > >>>>>>> Monday - Friday: 6am - 5pm Pacific Time > > >>>>>>> Saturday - Sunday: 8:30am - 5pm Pacific Time > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Please provide this information with your contact details: > > >>>>>>> build: r13.0 01/07/2013 16:51 > > >>>>>>> client time: Tue Feb 5 20:47:53 GMT+0100 2013 > > >>>>>>> total memory: 50823168 > > >>>>>>> is debugger: false > > >>>>>>> language: en > > >>>>>>> local file read disable: false > > >>>>>>> manufacturer: Google Pepper > > >>>>>>> os: Windows 8 > > >>>>>>> player type: PlugIn > > >>>>>>> version: WIN 11,6,602,167 > > >>>>>>> screen dpi: 72 > > >>>>>>> screen res x: 1920 > > >>>>>>> screen res y: 1080 > > >>>>>>> ==================================== > > >>>>>>> Type: FATAL_EVENT > > >>>>>>> Message:Startup Aborted > > >>>>>>> eventType: operationError > > >>>>>>> System.totalMemory: 50802688 > > >>>>>>> opClassName: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > > > > com.shutterfly.web.custompath.shell.controller.initialization::StartApplicat>>> > > i > > >>>>>> onCmdlet > > >>>>>>> activityStack: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > > > > com.shutterfly.web.custompath.shell.controller::LoadUserSessionDataCmdlet,co>>> > > m > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > > > > .shutterfly.web.custompath.shell.controller.initialization::StartApplication>>> > > C > > >>>>>> mdlet > > >>>>>>> Capabilities.version: WIN 11,6,602,167 > > >>>>>>> System.vmVersion: 2.1 sec cyclone > > >>>>>>> result: undefined > > >>>>>>> error: Security error accessing url > > >>>>>>> Capabilities.os: Windows 8 > > >>>>>>> sourceClass: > > >>>>>> com.shutterfly.web.custompath.shell.controller::StartupCommand > > >>>>>>> appRunTime: 30939 > > >>>>>>> ==================================== > > >>>>>>> Recent Info Events > > >>>>>>> ==================================== > > >>>>>>> Type: APP_INFO > > >>>>>>> Message:Sending a notification > > >>>>>>> Capabilities.os: Windows 8 > > >>>>>>> System.totalMemory: 50798592 > > >>>>>>> Capabilities.version: WIN 11,6,602,167 > > >>>>>>> System.vmVersion: 2.1 sec cyclone > > >>>>>>> NOTIFICATION: OOPS_EVENT > > >>>>>>> sourceClass: com.shutterfly.web.custompath.shell::ShellFacade > > >>>>>>> type: INFO > > >>>>>>> appRunTime: 30937 > > >>>>>>> ==================================== > > >>>>>>> ==================================== > > >>>>>>> Type: APP_INFO > > >>>>>>> Message:trackPageName called > > >>>>>>> Capabilities.version: WIN 11,6,602,167 > > >>>>>>> System.totalMemory: 47570944 > > >>>>>>> oldPageName: > > >>>>>>> System.vmVersion: 2.1 sec cyclone > > >>>>>>> appRunTime: 30775 > > >>>>>>> Capabilities.os: Windows 8 > > >>>>>>> sourceClass: com.shutterfly.omniture::SflyActionSourceImpl > > >>>>>>> type: INFO > > >>>>>>> newPageName: Custompath/OopsDialog > > >>>>>>> ==================================== > > >>>>>>> ==================================== > > >>>>>>> Type: APP_INFO > > >>>>>>> Message:Sending a notification > > >>>>>>> Capabilities.os: Windows 8 > > >>>>>>> System.totalMemory: 47517696 > > >>>>>>> Capabilities.version: WIN 11,6,602,167 > > >>>>>>> System.vmVersion: 2.1 sec cyclone > > >>>>>>> NOTIFICATION: FORCE_HIDE_PLEASE_WAIT_INDICATOR > > >>>>>>> sourceClass: com.shutterfly.web.custompath.shell::ShellFacade > > >>>>>>> type: INFO > > >>>>>>> appRunTime: 30773 > > >>>>>>> ==================================== > > >>>>>>> ==================================== > > >>>>>>> Type: APP_INFO > > >>>>>>> Message:The cmdlet completed > > >>>>>>> System.totalMemory: 47517696 > > >>>>>>> Cmdlet: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > > > > com.shutterfly.web.custompath.shell.controller.cmdlets::HidePleaseWaitIndica>>> > > t > > >>>>>> orCmdlet > > >>>>>>> System.vmVersion: 2.1 sec cyclone > > >>>>>>> Capabilities.version: WIN 11,6,602,167 > > >>>>>>> Capabilities.os: Windows 8 > > >>>>>>> sourceClass: > > >>>>>> com.shutterfly.operations.monitoring::CmdletAppEventDispatcher > > >>>>>>> type: INFO > > >>>>>>> appRunTime: 30773 > > >>>>>>> ==================================== > > >>>>>>> ==================================== > > >>>>>>> Type: APP_INFO > > >>>>>>> Message:About to execute a synchronous cmdlet > > >>>>>>> System.totalMemory: 47513600 > > >>>>>>> Cmdlet: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > > > > com.shutterfly.web.custompath.shell.controller.cmdlets::HidePleaseWaitIndica>>> > > t > > >>>>>> orCmdlet > > >>>>>>> System.vmVersion: 2.1 sec cyclone > > >>>>>>> Capabilities.version: WIN 11,6,602,167 > > >>>>>>> Capabilities.os: Windows 8 > > >>>>>>> sourceClass: > > >>>>>> com.shutterfly.operations.monitoring::CmdletAppEventDispatcher > > >>>>>>> type: INFO > > >>>>>>> appRunTime: 30772 > > >>>>>>> ==================================== > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> On 5 February 2013 20:31, Om <bigosma...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> A couple of projects that I was involved with in the past - does > > >>> not > > >>>>>>>> require login to launch. You could work off of your pictures > from > > >>>> your > > >>>>>>>> desktop or chose to login to one of the providers listed > > (facebook, > > >>>>>> etc.) > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > http://www.shutterfly.com/custompath/viewEdit.sfly?fid=bbc315ed9d1d8661 > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> > > http://www.shutterfly.com/simplepath/viewEdit.sfly?fid=3a3b75397df239b0 > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Thanks, > > >>>>>>>> Om > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Nicholas Kwiatkowski < > > >>>>>> nicho...@spoon.as > > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> I've got a few apps to show off, but in all honesty -- I've > been > > >>>>>> doing > > >>>>>>>>> mostly mobile work lately. Here is one of the first Flex 4.8.0 > > >>> apps > > >>>>>> I > > >>>>>>>>> published... : > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>> > > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=air.org.pointi.androidApp > > >>>>>>>>> > http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pointillism/id556476833?ls=1&mt=8 > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> -Nick > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Lee Burrows < > > >>>>>>>> subscripti...@leeburrows.com > > >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> Im happy for this small web app (and source code) to be used > if > > >>> its > > >>>>>>>>> deemed > > >>>>>>>>>> appropriate: http://mandelbrot-explorer.**com/< > > >>>>>>>>> http://mandelbrot-explorer.com/>- it was built pre-Apache but > is > > >>>>>> spark > > >>>>>>>> so > > >>>>>>>>> i can easily update it to 4.9 > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> On 05/02/2013 18:57, Alex Harui wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> It would definitely be great to get some apps for the > showcase. > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> The Adobe Flex showcase is still up, but it suffers from the > > >>> fact > > >>>>>>> that > > >>>>>>>>>>> most apps require a login so most of what you have are > > >>>>>> screenshots. > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> I sent a screenshot of PrintUI to Infoworld, and apps like > that > > >>>>>>> would > > >>>>>>>> be > > >>>>>>>>>>> nice to have in a showcase. > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> One thing I've been pondering is that what the killer > showcase > > >>> app > > >>>>>>>> would > > >>>>>>>>>>> be. Even PrintUI requires a healthy wait at startup (at > least > > >>> at > > >>>>>>> home > > >>>>>>>>> over > > >>>>>>>>>>> DSL) and the task to perform takes "a while" so most folks > > won't > > >>>>>>>> really > > >>>>>>>>> try > > >>>>>>>>>>> it to completion and get a good feel for what it can do. > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Startup time is an important part of the new framework I'm > > >>> working > > >>>>>>> on > > >>>>>>>> so > > >>>>>>>>>>> that public-facing apps over slower connections startup > > >>> reasonably > > >>>>>>>>> quickly, > > >>>>>>>>>>> but it I am still searching for a task that the public can > > >>>>>>> accomplish > > >>>>>>>>> that > > >>>>>>>>>>> doesn't require money, logins, several steps, etc, but > > showcases > > >>>>>> any > > >>>>>>>>>>> advantages of Flex. > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> That said, the static screenshots and even some of these > > dynamic > > >>>>>>> apps > > >>>>>>>>> are > > >>>>>>>>>>> becoming easier to do in HTML. So really, maybe developer > > >>>>>>>> productivity > > >>>>>>>>> is > > >>>>>>>>>>> our best selling point these days? Or is it the ability to > use > > >>>>>>>>> structured > > >>>>>>>>>>> programming? > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> Alex Harui > > >>>>>>>>>>> Apache Flex Team > > >>>>>>>>>>> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > > >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Harbs [mailto:harbs.li...@gmail.com] > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 8:24 AM > > >>>>>>>>>>>> To: dev@flex.apache.org > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [PR] Getting people excited about Flex > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Well, you can feel free to use PrintUI.com in both > > >>> capacities... > > >>>>>>> ;-) > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone on the dev list who has permission to showcase apps, > > can > > >>>>>>> just > > >>>>>>>>>>>> post them > > >>>>>>>>>>>> here as a starting point for the list. > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 5, 2013, at 6:11 PM, Nicholas Kwiatkowski wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I'd love to see something like this on the website. The > only > > >>>>>>>> problem > > >>>>>>>>>>>> was seeding the list. Heck, I couldn't even get 6 companies > > >>> to > > >>>>>>>> allow > > >>>>>>>>>>>> us to use their logos to say that they use Apache Flex to > put > > >>> on > > >>>>>>> our > > >>>>>>>>>>>> website... > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> -Nick > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Marcus Fritze > > >>>>>>>>>>>> <marcus.fri...@googlemail.com > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, this sounds good. I think, on the old flex.org page > > >>> there > > >>>>>>> was > > >>>>>>>>>>>> also a showcase section. And everybody could see, what's > > >>>>>> possible > > >>>>>>>>> with > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Flex. > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> And we should not forget the category desktop AIR apps. And > > >>>>>> maybe > > >>>>>>>>>>>> "categorize" these apps into topics (or tags - what does the > > >>>>>>>>>>>> application). > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Marcus Fritze > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Am 05.02.2013 um 16:28 schrieb Harbs <harbs.li...@gmail.com > > >>>> : > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I was thinking: There's nothing quite like showing people > > >>>>>>> quality > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> working applications to convince them that a technology is a > > >>>>>>> viable > > >>>>>>>>>>>> option for their own needs. > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Should we have a featured page of the Flex website that has > > >>> a > > >>>>>>> list > > >>>>>>>>>>>> of > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> featured applications? We could break it into categories of > > >>> web > > >>>>>>>> apps, > > >>>>>>>>>>>> iOS apps and Android apps. Eventually HTML apps could join > > >>> that > > >>>>>>>> list. > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile apps are probably the most important, because no one > > >>>>>> knows > > >>>>>>>>>>>> what technology you used to create a mobile app... > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> What do you think? > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Harbs > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>> regards, > > >>>>>>> Roland > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>> Roland Zwaga > > >>>>>>> Senior Consultant | Stack & Heap BVBA > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> +32 (0)486 16 12 62 | rol...@stackandheap.com | > > >>>>>>> http://www.stackandheap.com > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> http://zwaga.blogspot.com > > >>>>>>> http://www.springactionscript.org > > >>>>>>> http://www.as3commons.org > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> -- > > >>>>> regards, > > >>>>> Roland > > >>>>> > > >>>>> -- > > >>>>> Roland Zwaga > > >>>>> Senior Consultant | Stack & Heap BVBA > > >>>>> > > >>>>> +32 (0)486 16 12 62 | rol...@stackandheap.com | > > >>>> http://www.stackandheap.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>> http://zwaga.blogspot.com > > >>>>> http://www.springactionscript.org > > >>>>> http://www.as3commons.org > > >>>> > > >>>> -- > > >>>> Alex Harui > > >>>> Flex SDK Team > > >>>> Adobe Systems, Inc. > > >>>> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> regards, > > >>> Roland > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Roland Zwaga > > >>> Senior Consultant | Stack & Heap BVBA > > >>> > > >>> +32 (0)486 16 12 62 | rol...@stackandheap.com | > > >>> http://www.stackandheap.com > > >>> > > >>> http://zwaga.blogspot.com > > >>> http://www.springactionscript.org > > >>> http://www.as3commons.org > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > > > -- > > Alex Harui > > Flex SDK Team > > Adobe Systems, Inc. > > http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui > > > > >
