+1 Sounds great!
------------------------------------------------------------------
Sender:Shuyi Chen <suez1...@gmail.com>
Sent at:2018 Nov 29 (Thu) 06:56
Recipient:dev <dev@flink.apache.org>
Subject:Re: [DISCUSS] Flink SQL DDL Design
Thanks a lot, Shaoxuan, Jack and Lin. We should definitely collaborate
here, we have also our own DDL implementation running in production for
almost 2 years at Uber. With the joint experience from both companies, we
can definitely make the Flink SQL DDL better.
As @shaoxuan suggest, Jark can come up with a doc that talks about the
current DDL design in Alibaba, and we can discuss and merge them into one,
make it as a FLIP, and plan the tasks for implementation. Also, we should
take into account the new external catalog effort in the design. What do
you guys think?
Shuyi
On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 6:45 AM Jark Wu <imj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Shaoxuan,
>
> I think summarizing it into a google doc is a good idea. We will prepare it
> in the next few days.
>
> Thanks,
> Jark
>
> Shaoxuan Wang <wshaox...@gmail.com> 于2018年11月28日周三 下午9:17写道：
>
> > Hi Lin and Jark,
> > Thanks for sharing those details. Can you please consider summarizing
> your
> > DDL design into a google doc.
> > We can still continue the discussions on Shuyi's proposal. But having a
> > separate google doc will be easy for the DEV to
> understand/comment/discuss
> > on your proposed DDL implementation.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Shaoxuan
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 7:39 PM Jark Wu <imj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Shuyi,
> > >
> > > Thanks for bringing up this discussion and the awesome work! I have
> left
> > > some comments in the doc.
> > >
> > > I want to share something more about the watermark definition learned
> > from
> > > Alibaba.
> > >
> > > 1.
> > >
> > > Table should be able to accept multiple watermark definition.
> > >
> > > Because a table may have more than one rowtime field. For example,
> one
> > > rowtime field is from existing field but missing in some records,
> > > another
> > > is the ingestion timestamp in Kafka but not very accurate. In this
> > case,
> > > user may define two rowtime fields with watermarks in the Table and
> > > choose
> > > one in different situation.
> > > 2.
> > >
> > > Watermark stragety always work with rowtime field together.
> > >
> > > Based on the two points metioned above, I think we should combine the
> > > watermark strategy and rowtime field selection (i.e. which existing
> field
> > > used to generate watermark) in one clause, so that we can define
> multiple
> > > watermarks in one Table.
> > >
> > > Here I will share the watermark syntax used in Alibaba (simply
> modified):
> > >
> > > watermarkDefinition:
> > > WATERMARK [watermarkName] FOR <rowtime_field> AS wm_strategy
> > >
> > > wm_strategy:
> > > BOUNDED WITH OFFSET 'string' timeUnit
> > > |
> > > ASCENDING
> > >
> > > The “WATERMARK” keyword starts a watermark definition. The “FOR”
> keyword
> > > defines which existing field used to generate watermark, this field
> > should
> > > already exist in the schema (we can use computed-column to derive from
> > > other fields). The “AS” keyword defines watermark strategy, such as
> > BOUNDED
> > > WITH OFFSET (covers almost all the requirements) and ASCENDING.
> > >
> > > When the expected rowtime field does not exist in the schema, we can
> use
> > > computed-column syntax to derive it from other existing fields using
> > > built-in functions or user defined functions. So the rowtime/watermark
> > > definition doesn’t need to care about “field-change” strategy
> > > (replace/add/from-field). And the proctime field definition can also be
> > > defined using computed-column. Such as pt as PROCTIME() which defines a
> > > proctime field named “pt” in the schema.
> > >
> > > Looking forward to working with you guys!
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Jark Wu
> > >
> > >
> > > Lin Li <lincoln.8...@gmail.com> 于2018年11月28日周三 下午6:33写道：
> > >
> > > > @Shuyi
> > > > Thanks for the proposal! We have a simple DDL implementation
> (extends
> > > > Calcite's parser) which been running for almost two years on
> production
> > > and
> > > > works well.
> > > > I think the most valued things we'd learned is keeping simplicity and
> > > > standard compliance.
> > > > Here's the approximate grammar, FYI
> > > > CREATE TABLE
> > > >
> > > > CREATE TABLE tableName(
> > > > columnDefinition [, columnDefinition]*
> > > > [ computedColumnDefinition [, computedColumnDefinition]* ]
> > > > [ tableConstraint [, tableConstraint]* ]
> > > > [ tableIndex [, tableIndex]* ]
> > > > [ PERIOD FOR SYSTEM_TIME ]
> > > > [ WATERMARK watermarkName FOR rowTimeColumn AS
> > > > withOffset(rowTimeColumn, offset) ] ) [ WITH ( tableOption [ ,
> > > > tableOption]* ) ] [ ; ]
> > > >
> > > > columnDefinition ::=
> > > > columnName dataType [ NOT NULL ]
> > > >
> > > > dataType ::=
> > > > {
> > > > [ VARCHAR ]
> > > > | [ BOOLEAN ]
> > > > | [ TINYINT ]
> > > > | [ SMALLINT ]
> > > > | [ INT ]
> > > > | [ BIGINT ]
> > > > | [ FLOAT ]
> > > > | [ DECIMAL ]
> > > > | [ DOUBLE ]
> > > > | [ DATE ]
> > > > | [ TIME ]
> > > > | [ TIMESTAMP ]
> > > > | [ VARBINARY ]
> > > > }
> > > >
> > > > computedColumnDefinition ::=
> > > > columnName AS computedColumnExpression
> > > >
> > > > tableConstraint ::=
> > > > { PRIMARY KEY | UNIQUE }
> > > > (columnName [, columnName]* )
> > > >
> > > > tableIndex ::=
> > > > [ UNIQUE ] INDEX indexName
> > > > (columnName [, columnName]* )
> > > >
> > > > rowTimeColumn ::=
> > > > columnName
> > > >
> > > > tableOption ::=
> > > > property=value
> > > > offset ::=
> > > > positive integer (unit: ms)
> > > >
> > > > CREATE VIEW
> > > >
> > > > CREATE VIEW viewName
> > > > [
> > > > ( columnName [, columnName]* )
> > > > ]
> > > > AS queryStatement;
> > > >
> > > > CREATE FUNCTION
> > > >
> > > > CREATE FUNCTION functionName
> > > > AS 'className';
> > > >
> > > > className ::=
> > > > fully qualified name
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Shuyi Chen <suez1...@gmail.com> 于2018年11月28日周三 上午3:28写道：
> > > >
> > > > > Thanks a lot, Timo and Xuefu. Yes, I think we can finalize the
> design
> > > doc
> > > > > first and start implementation w/o the unified connector API ready
> by
> > > > > skipping some featue.
> > > > >
> > > > > Xuefu, I like the idea of making Flink specific properties into
> > generic
> > > > > key-value pairs, so that it will make integration with Hive DDL (or
> > > > others,
> > > > > e.g. Beam DDL) easier.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'll run a final pass over the design doc and finalize the design
> in
> > > the
> > > > > next few days. And we can start creating tasks and collaborate on
> the
> > > > > implementation. Thanks a lot for all the comments and inputs.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers!
> > > > > Shuyi
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 7:02 AM Zhang, Xuefu <
> > xuef...@alibaba-inc.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Yeah! I agree with Timo that DDL can actually proceed w/o being
> > > blocked
> > > > > by
> > > > > > connector API. We can leave the unknown out while defining the
> > basic
> > > > > syntax.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > @Shuyi
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As commented in the doc, I think we can probably stick with
> simple
> > > > syntax
> > > > > > with general properties, without extending the syntax too much
> that
> > > it
> > > > > > mimics the descriptor API.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Part of our effort on Flink-Hive integration is also to make DDL
> > > syntax
> > > > > > compatible with Hive's. The one in the current proposal seems
> > making
> > > > our
> > > > > > effort more challenging.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We can help and collaborate. At this moment, I think we can
> > finalize
> > > on
> > > > > > the proposal and then we can divide the tasks for better
> > > collaboration.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please let me know if there are any questions or suggestions.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Xuefu
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > Sender:Timo Walther <twal...@apache.org>
> > > > > > Sent at:2018 Nov 27 (Tue) 16:21
> > > > > > Recipient:dev <dev@flink.apache.org>
> > > > > > Subject:Re: [DISCUSS] Flink SQL DDL Design
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for offering your help here, Xuefu. It would be great to
> > move
> > > > > > these efforts forward. I agree that the DDL is somehow releated
> to
> > > the
> > > > > > unified connector API design but we can also start with the basic
> > > > > > functionality now and evolve the DDL during this release and next
> > > > > releases.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For example, we could identify the MVP DDL syntax that skips
> > defining
> > > > > > key constraints and maybe even time attributes. This DDL could be
> > > used
> > > > > > for batch usecases, ETL, and materializing SQL queries (no time
> > > > > > operations like windows).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The unified connector API is high on our priority list for the
> 1.8
> > > > > > release. I will try to update the document until mid of next
> week.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Timo
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Am 27.11.18 um 08:08 schrieb Shuyi Chen:
> > > > > > > Thanks a lot, Xuefu. I was busy for some other stuff for the
> > last 2
> > > > > > weeks,
> > > > > > > but we are definitely interested in moving this forward. I
> think
> > > once
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > unified connector API design [1] is done, we can finalize the
> DDL
> > > > > design
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > > well and start creating concrete subtasks to collaborate on the
> > > > > > > implementation with the community.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Shuyi
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [1]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Yaxp1UJUFW-peGLt8EIidwKIZEWrrA-pznWLuvaH39Y/edit?usp=sharing
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 7:01 PM Zhang, Xuefu <
> > > > xuef...@alibaba-inc.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> Hi Shuyi,
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> I'm wondering if you folks still have the bandwidth working on
> > > this.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> We have some dedicated resource and like to move this forward.
> > We
> > > > can
> > > > > > >> collaborate.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Thanks,
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Xuefu
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > >> 发件人：wenlong.lwl<wenlong88....@gmail.com>
> > > > > > >> 日 期：2018年11月05日 11:15:35
> > > > > > >> 收件人：<dev@flink.apache.org>
> > > > > > >> 主 题：Re: [DISCUSS] Flink SQL DDL Design
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Hi, Shuyi, thanks for the proposal.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> I have two concerns about the table ddl:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 1. how about remove the source/sink mark from the ddl, because
> > it
> > > is
> > > > > not
> > > > > > >> necessary, the framework determine the table referred is a
> > source
> > > > or a
> > > > > > sink
> > > > > > >> according to the context of the query using the table. it will
> > be
> > > > more
> > > > > > >> convenient for use defining a table which can be both a source
> > and
> > > > > sink,
> > > > > > >> and more convenient for catalog to persistent and manage the
> > meta
> > > > > infos.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> 2. how about just keeping one pure string map as parameters
> for
> > > > table,
> > > > > > like
> > > > > > >> create tabe Kafka10SourceTable (
> > > > > > >> intField INTEGER,
> > > > > > >> stringField VARCHAR(128),
> > > > > > >> longField BIGINT,
> > > > > > >> rowTimeField TIMESTAMP
> > > > > > >> ) with (
> > > > > > >> connector.type = ’kafka’,
> > > > > > >> connector.property-version = ’1’,
> > > > > > >> connector.version = ’0.10’,
> > > > > > >> connector.properties.topic = ‘test-kafka-topic’,
> > > > > > >> connector.properties.startup-mode = ‘latest-offset’,
> > > > > > >> connector.properties.specific-offset = ‘offset’,
> > > > > > >> format.type = 'json'
> > > > > > >> format.prperties.version=’1’,
> > > > > > >> format.derive-schema = 'true'
> > > > > > >> );
> > > > > > >> Because:
> > > > > > >> 1. in TableFactory, what user use is a string map properties,
> > > > defining
> > > > > > >> parameters by string-map can be the closest way to mapping how
> > > user
> > > > > use
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > >> parameters.
> > > > > > >> 2. The table descriptor can be extended by user, like what is
> > done
> > > > in
> > > > > > Kafka
> > > > > > >> and Json, it means that the parameter keys in connector or
> > format
> > > > can
> > > > > be
> > > > > > >> different in different implementation, we can not restrict the
> > key
> > > > in
> > > > > a
> > > > > > >> specified set, so we need a map in connector scope and a map
> in
> > > > > > >> connector.properties scope. why not just give user a single
> map,
> > > let
> > > > > > them
> > > > > > >> put parameters in a format they like, which is also the
> simplest
> > > way
> > > > > to
> > > > > > >> implement DDL parser.
> > > > > > >> 3. whether we can define a format clause or not, depends on
> the
> > > > > > >> implementation of the connector, using different clause in DDL
> > may
> > > > > make
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > >> misunderstanding that we can combine the connectors with
> > arbitrary
> > > > > > formats,
> > > > > > >> which may not work actually.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 at 18:25, Dominik Wosiński <
> wos...@gmail.com
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>> +1, Thanks for the proposal.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> I guess this is a long-awaited change. This can vastly
> increase
> > > the
> > > > > > >>> functionalities of the SQL Client as it will be possible to
> use
> > > > > complex
> > > > > > >>> extensions like for example those provided by Apache
> Bahir[1].
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> Best Regards,
> > > > > > >>> Dom.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> [1]
> > > > > > >>> https://github.com/apache/bahir-flink
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> sob., 3 lis 2018 o 17:17 Rong Rong <walter...@gmail.com>
> > > > napisał(a):
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>> +1. Thanks for putting the proposal together Shuyi.
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> DDL has been brought up in a couple of times previously
> [1,2].
> > > > > > >> Utilizing
> > > > > > >>>> DDL will definitely be a great extension to the current
> Flink
> > > SQL
> > > > to
> > > > > > >>>> systematically support some of the previously brought up
> > > features
> > > > > such
> > > > > > >> as
> > > > > > >>>> [3]. And it will also be beneficial to see the document
> > closely
> > > > > > aligned
> > > > > > >>>> with the previous discussion for unified SQL connector API
> > [4].
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> I also left a few comments on the doc. Looking forward to
> the
> > > > > > alignment
> > > > > > >>>> with the other couple of efforts and contributing to them!
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> Best,
> > > > > > >>>> Rong
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> [1]
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/flink-dev/201805.mbox/%3CCAMZk55ZTJA7MkCK1Qu4gLPu1P9neqCfHZtTcgLfrFjfO4Xv5YQ%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> > > > > > >>>> [2]
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/flink-dev/201810.mbox/%3CDC070534-0782-4AFD-8A85-8A82B384B8F7%40gmail.com%3E
> > > > > > >>>> [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-8003
> > > > > > >>>> [4]
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/flink-dev/201810.mbox/%3c6676cb66-6f31-23e1-eff5-2e9c19f88...@apache.org%3E
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 10:22 AM Bowen Li <
> bowenl...@gmail.com
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> Thanks Shuyi!
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> I left some comments there. I think the design of SQL DDL
> and
> > > > > > >>> Flink-Hive
> > > > > > >>>>> integration/External catalog enhancements will work closely
> > > with
> > > > > each
> > > > > > >>>>> other. Hope we are well aligned on the directions of the
> two
> > > > > designs,
> > > > > > >>>> and I
> > > > > > >>>>> look forward to working with you guys on both!
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> Bowen
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 10:57 PM Shuyi Chen <
> > suez1...@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>> Hi everyone,
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> SQL DDL support has been a long-time ask from the
> community.
> > > > > > >> Current
> > > > > > >>>>> Flink
> > > > > > >>>>>> SQL support only DML (e.g. SELECT and INSERT statements).
> In
> > > its
> > > > > > >>>> current
> > > > > > >>>>>> form, Flink SQL users still need to define/create table
> > > sources
> > > > > and
> > > > > > >>>> sinks
> > > > > > >>>>>> programmatically in Java/Scala. Also, in SQL Client,
> without
> > > DDL
> > > > > > >>>> support,
> > > > > > >>>>>> the current implementation does not allow dynamical
> creation
> > > of
> > > > > > >>> table,
> > > > > > >>>>> type
> > > > > > >>>>>> or functions with SQL, this adds friction for its
> adoption.
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> I drafted a design doc [1] with a few other community
> > members
> > > > that
> > > > > > >>>>> proposes
> > > > > > >>>>>> the design and implementation for adding DDL support in
> > Flink.
> > > > The
> > > > > > >>>>> initial
> > > > > > >>>>>> design considers DDL for table, view, type, library and
> > > > function.
> > > > > > >> It
> > > > > > >>>> will
> > > > > > >>>>>> be great to get feedback on the design from the community,
> > and
> > > > > > >> align
> > > > > > >>>> with
> > > > > > >>>>>> latest effort in unified SQL connector API [2] and Flink
> > Hive
> > > > > > >>>>> integration
> > > > > > >>>>>> [3].
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> Any feedback is highly appreciated.
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> Thanks
> > > > > > >>>>>> Shuyi Chen
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> [1]
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TTP-GCC8wSsibJaSUyFZ_5NBAHYEB1FVmPpP7RgDGBA/edit?usp=sharing
> > > > > > >>>>>> [2]
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Yaxp1UJUFW-peGLt8EIidwKIZEWrrA-pznWLuvaH39Y/edit?usp=sharing
> > > > > > >>>>>> [3]
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SkppRD_rE3uOKSN-LuZCqn4f7dz0zW5aa6T_hBZq5_o/edit?usp=sharing
> > > > > > >>>>>> --
> > > > > > >>>>>> "So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect
> in
> > > your
> > > > > > >>>> future."
> > > > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > "So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your
> > > future."
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
--
"So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future."
