The pull request has been merged. Thank you for the discussion and reviewing. The page is live now: https://flink.apache.org/what-is-flink/special-thanks/
Best, Jark On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 at 17:44, Jark Wu <imj...@gmail.com> wrote: > I have created a JIRA issue and opened a pull request for this: > https://github.com/apache/flink-web/pull/725. > > Best, > Jark > > On Tue, 12 Mar 2024 at 16:56, Jark Wu <imj...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Thank you all for your feedback. If there are no other concerns or >> objections, >> I'm going to create a pull request to add the Special Thanks page. >> >> Further feedback and sponsors to be added are still welcome! >> >> Best, >> Jark >> >> On Mon, 11 Mar 2024 at 23:09, Maximilian Michels <m...@apache.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi Jark, >>> >>> Thanks for clarifying. At first sight, such a page indicated general >>> sponsorship. +1 for a Thank You page to list specific monetary >>> contributions to the project for resources which are actively used or >>> were actively used in the past. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Max >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 11:55 AM Martijn Visser <martijnvis...@apache.org> >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Hi all, >>> > >>> > I'm +1 on it. As long as we follow the ASF rules on this, we can thank >>> > those that are/have made contributions. >>> > >>> > Best regards, >>> > >>> > Martijn >>> > >>> > On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 7:45 AM Jark Wu <imj...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > >>> > > Hi Matthias, >>> > > >>> > > Thanks for your comments! Please see my reply inline. >>> > > >>> > > > What do we do if we have enough VMs? Do we still allow >>> > > companies to add more VMs to the pool even though it's not adding any >>> > > value? >>> > > >>> > > The ASF policy[1] makes it very clear: "Project Thanks pages are to >>> show >>> > > appreciation >>> > > for goods that the project truly needs, not just for goods that >>> someone >>> > > wants to donate." >>> > > Therefore, the community should reject new VMs if it is enough. >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > > The community lacks the openly accessible tools to monitor the VM >>> usage >>> > > independently >>> > > as far as I know (the Azure Pipelines project is owned by Ververica >>> right >>> > > now). >>> > > >>> > > The Azure pipeline account is sponsored by Ververica, and is managed >>> by the >>> > > community. >>> > > AFAIK, Chesnay and Robert both have admin permissions [2] to the >>> Azure >>> > > pipeline project. >>> > > Others can contact the managers to get access to the environment. >>> > > >>> > > > I figured that there could be a chance for us to >>> > > rely on Apache-provided infrastructure entirely with our current >>> workload >>> > > when switching over from Azure Pipelines. >>> > > >>> > > That sounds great. We can return back the VMs and mark the donations >>> as >>> > > historical >>> > > on the Thank Page once the new GitHub Actions CI is ready. >>> > > >>> > > > I am fine with creating a Thank You page to acknowledge the >>> financial >>> > > contributions from Alibaba and Ververica in the past (since Apache >>> allows >>> > > historical donations) considering that the contributions of the two >>> > > companies go way back in time and are quite significant in my >>> opinion. I >>> > > suggest focusing on the past for now because of the option to >>> migrate to >>> > > Apache infrastructure midterm. >>> > > >>> > > Sorry, do you mean we only mention past donations for now? >>> > > IIUC, the new GitHub Actions might be ready after the end of v1.20, >>> which >>> > > probably be in half a year. >>> > > I'm worried that if we say the sponsorship is ongoing until now (but >>> it's >>> > > not), it will confuse >>> > > people and disrespect the sponsor. >>> > > >>> > > Besides, I'm not sure whether the new GitHub Actions CI will replace >>> the >>> > > machines for running >>> > > flink-ci mirrors [3] and the flink benchmarks [4]. If not, I think >>> it's >>> > > inappropriate to say they are >>> > > historical donations. >>> > > >>> > > Furthermore, we are collecting all kinds of donations. I just >>> noticed that >>> > > AWS donated [5] service costs >>> > > for flink-connector-aws tests that hit real AWS services. This is an >>> > > ongoing donation and I think it's not >>> > > good to mark it as a historical donation. (Thanks for the donation, >>> AWS, >>> > > @Danny >>> > > Cranmer <dannycran...@apache.org> @HongTeoh! >>> > > We should add it to the Thank Page!) >>> > > >>> > > Best, >>> > > Jark >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > [1]: https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/linking#projectthanks >>> > > [2]: >>> > > >>> > > >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/Continuous+Integration#ContinuousIntegration-Contacts >>> > > >>> > > [3]: >>> > > >>> > > >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/Continuous+Integration#ContinuousIntegration-Repositories >>> > > >>> > > [4]: >>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/bkw6ozoflgltwfwmzjtgx522hyssfko6 >>> > > >>> > > [5]: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-24474 >>> > > >>> > > On Wed, 6 Mar 2024 at 17:58, Matthias Pohl <map...@apache.org> >>> wrote: >>> > > >>> > > > Thanks for starting this discussion. I see the value of such a >>> page if we >>> > > > want to encourage companies to sponsor CI infrastructure in case >>> we need >>> > > > this infrastructure (as Yun Tang pointed out). The question is, >>> though: >>> > > Do >>> > > > we need more VMs? The amount of commits to master is constantly >>> > > decreasing >>> > > > since its peak in 2019/2020 [1]. Did we observe shortage of CI >>> runners in >>> > > > the past years? What do we do if we have enough VMs? Do we still >>> allow >>> > > > companies to add more VMs to the pool even though it's not adding >>> any >>> > > > value? Then it becomes a marketing tool for companies. The >>> community >>> > > lacks >>> > > > the openly accessible tools to monitor the VM usage independently >>> as far >>> > > as >>> > > > I know (the Azure Pipelines project is owned by Ververica right >>> now). My >>> > > > concern is (which goes towards what Max is saying) that this can >>> be a >>> > > > source of friction in the community (even if it's not about >>> individuals >>> > > but >>> > > > companies). I'm not sure whether the need for additional >>> infrastructure >>> > > > out-weights the risk for friction. >>> > > > >>> > > > On another note: After monitoring the GitHub Action workflows >>> (FLIP-396 >>> > > > [2]) for the past weeks, I figured that there could be a chance >>> for us to >>> > > > rely on Apache-provided infrastructure entirely with our current >>> workload >>> > > > when switching over from Azure Pipelines. But that might be a >>> premature >>> > > > judgement because the monitoring started after the feature freeze >>> of >>> > > Flink >>> > > > 1.19. We should wait with a final conclusion till the end of the >>> 1.20 >>> > > > release cycle. Apache Infra increased the amount of VMs they are >>> offering >>> > > > since 2018 (when the Apache Flink community decided to go for Azure >>> > > > Pipelines and custom VMs as far as I know). That's based on a >>> > > conversation >>> > > > I had with the Apache Infra folks at one of their roundtable >>> meetings >>> > > [3]. >>> > > > This and the fact that the amount of commits is decreasing in >>> recent >>> > > years >>> > > > [1] (which correlates with the number of CI runs) could be >>> indications >>> > > that >>> > > > additional VMs are not necessary (and with that, the need to have >>> a Thank >>> > > > You page as well). >>> > > > >>> > > > But I acknowledge that Alibaba and Ververica would like to be >>> recognized >>> > > > for their financial contributions to the community in the past. >>> > > Therefore, >>> > > > I am fine with creating a Thank You page to acknowledge the >>> financial >>> > > > contributions from Alibaba and Ververica in the past (since Apache >>> allows >>> > > > historical donations) considering that the contributions of the two >>> > > > companies go way back in time and are quite significant in my >>> opinion. I >>> > > > suggest focusing on the past for now because of the option to >>> migrate to >>> > > > Apache infrastructure midterm. >>> > > > >>> > > > Best, >>> > > > Matthias >>> > > > >>> > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/flink/graphs/contributors >>> > > > [2] >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/FLIP-396%3A+Trial+to+test+GitHub+Actions+as+an+alternative+for+Flink%27s+current+Azure+CI+infrastructure >>> > > > [3] >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/INFRA/Infra+Roundtable+2023-12-06%2C+17%3A00+UTC >>> > > > >>> > > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 7:06 AM tison <wander4...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > > > >>> > > > > > a rare way different than >>> > > > > > individuals (few individuals can donate such resources) >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Theoretically, if an individual donates so, we list list him/her >>> as >>> > > well. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > I've seen such donations in The Perl Foundation like [1]. But >>> since a >>> > > > > PMC doesn't have a fundraising office, we may not accept raw >>> money >>> > > > > anyway; it's already out of the thread :D >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Best, >>> > > > > tison. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > [1] >>> https://news.perlfoundation.org/post/announcement_of_the_ian_hague >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Yun Tang <myas...@live.com> 于2024年3月6日周三 13:58写道： >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > Thanks for Jark's proposal, and I'm +1 for adding such a page. >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > The CI infrastructure helps the Apache Flink project to run >>> well. I >>> > > > > cannot imagine how insufficient CI machines would impact the >>> > > development >>> > > > > progress, especially when the feature freeze date is close. And I >>> > > believe >>> > > > > that most guys who contributed to the community would not know >>> Alibaba >>> > > > and >>> > > > > Ververica had ever donated several machines to make the >>> community work >>> > > > > smoothly for years. >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > Best >>> > > > > > Yun Tang >>> > > > > > ________________________________ >>> > > > > > From: Jark Wu <imj...@gmail.com> >>> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 6, 2024 11:35 >>> > > > > > To: dev@flink.apache.org <dev@flink.apache.org> >>> > > > > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Add "Special Thanks" Page on the Flink >>> Website >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > Hi Max, >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > Thank you for your input. >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > According to ASF policy[1], the Thank Page is intended to >>> thank third >>> > > > > > parties >>> > > > > > that provide physical resources like machines, services, and >>> software >>> > > > > that >>> > > > > > the committers >>> > > > > > or the project truly needs. I agree with Tison, such donation >>> is >>> > > > > countable >>> > > > > > and that's why >>> > > > > > I started this discussion to collect the full list. The thank >>> Page is >>> > > > not >>> > > > > > intended to thank working >>> > > > > > hours or contributions from individual volunteers which I think >>> > > > > > is recognized in other ways >>> > > > > > (e.g., credit of committer and PMC member). >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > Best, >>> > > > > > Jark >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > [1]: >>> https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/linking#projectthanks >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > On Wed, 6 Mar 2024 at 01:14, tison <wander4...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > > Hi Max, >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > Thanks for sharing your concerns :D >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > I'd elaborate a bit on this topic with an example, that >>> Apache >>> > > > Airflow >>> > > > > > > has a small section for its special sponsor who offers >>> machines for >>> > > > CI >>> > > > > > > also [1]. >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > In my understanding, companies employ developers to invest >>> time in >>> > > > the >>> > > > > > > development of Flink and that is large, vague, and hard to >>> be fair >>> > > to >>> > > > > > > list all of the companies. >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > However, physical resources like CI machines are countable >>> and they >>> > > > > > > help the sustainability of our project in a rare way >>> different than >>> > > > > > > individuals (few individuals can donate such resources). We >>> can >>> > > > > > > maintain such a section or page for those sponsors so that >>> it also >>> > > > > > > decreases the friction when the company asks "what we can >>> gain" >>> > > (for >>> > > > > > > explicit credits, at least, and easy understanding). >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > Any entity is welcome to add themselves as long as it's >>> valid. >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > For the fair part, I'm not an employee of both companies >>> listed on >>> > > > the >>> > > > > > > demo page and I don't feel uncomfortable. Those companies do >>> > > invest a >>> > > > > > > lot on our project and I'd regard it as a chance to >>> encourage other >>> > > > > > > companies to follow. >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > Best, >>> > > > > > > tison. >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > [1] >>> https://github.com/apache/airflow?tab=readme-ov-file#sponsors >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > Maximilian Michels <m...@apache.org> 于2024年3月6日周三 00:49写道： >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > I'm a bit torn on this idea. On the one hand, it makes >>> sense to >>> > > > thank >>> > > > > > > > sponsors and entities who have supported Flink in the >>> past. On >>> > > > other >>> > > > > > > > hand, this list is bound to be incomplete and maybe also >>> biased, >>> > > > even >>> > > > > > > > if not intended to be so. I think the power of open-source >>> comes >>> > > > from >>> > > > > > > > the unconditional donation of code and knowledge. >>> Infrastructure >>> > > > > costs >>> > > > > > > > are a reality and donations in that area are meaningful, >>> but they >>> > > > are >>> > > > > > > > just one piece of the total sum which consists of many >>> volunteers >>> > > > and >>> > > > > > > > working hours. In my eyes, a Thank You page would have to >>> display >>> > > > > each >>> > > > > > > > entity fairly which is going to be hard to achieve. >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > -Max >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 5, 2024 at 2:30 PM Jingsong Li < >>> > > jingsongl...@gmail.com >>> > > > > >>> > > > > > > wrote: >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > +1 for setting up >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 5, 2024 at 5:39 PM Jing Ge >>> > > > <j...@ververica.com.invalid >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > > wrote: >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > +1 and thanks for the proposal! >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > Best regards, >>> > > > > > > > > > Jing >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 5, 2024 at 10:26 AM tison < >>> wander4...@gmail.com> >>> > > > > wrote: >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > I like this idea, so +1 for setting up. >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > For anyone who have the access, this is a related >>> thread >>> > > > about >>> > > > > > > > > > > project-wise sponsor in the foundation level [1]. >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > Best, >>> > > > > > > > > > > tison. >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > [1] >>> > > > > > > >>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/2nv0x9gfk9lfnpb2315xgywyx84y97v6 >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > Jark Wu <imj...@gmail.com> 于2024年3月5日周二 17:17写道： >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, I posted the wrong [7] link. The Flink >>> benchmark >>> > > ML >>> > > > > link >>> > > > > > > is: >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/bkw6ozoflgltwfwmzjtgx522hyssfko6 >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 5 Mar 2024 at 16:56, Jark Wu < >>> imj...@gmail.com> >>> > > > > wrote: >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > I want to propose adding a "Special Thanks" page >>> to our >>> > > > > Apache >>> > > > > > > Flink >>> > > > > > > > > > > website [1] >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > to honor and appreciate the >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > companies and organizations that have sponsored >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > machines or services for our project. The >>> establishment >>> > > > of >>> > > > > > > such a page >>> > > > > > > > > > > serves as >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > a public acknowledgment of our sponsors' >>> contributions >>> > > > and >>> > > > > > > > > > > simultaneously acts >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > as a positive encouragement for other entities to >>> > > > consider >>> > > > > > > supporting >>> > > > > > > > > > > our project. >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding Per-Project Thanks pages is allowed by ASF >>> > > > > policy[2], >>> > > > > > > which >>> > > > > > > > > > > says "PMCs >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > may wish to provide recognition for third >>> parties that >>> > > > > provide >>> > > > > > > > > > > software or services >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > to the project's committers to further the goals >>> of the >>> > > > > > > project. These >>> > > > > > > > > > > are typically >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > called Per-Project Thanks pages". Many Apache >>> projects >>> > > > > have >>> > > > > > > added such >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > pages, for example, Apache HBase[3] and Apache >>> Mina[4]. >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > To initiate this idea, I have drafted a >>> preliminary >>> > > page >>> > > > > under >>> > > > > > > the >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > "About" menu >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > on the >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Flink website to specifically thank Alibaba and >>> > > > Ververica, >>> > > > > by >>> > > > > > > following >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > the ASF guidelines and the Apache Mina project. >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > page image: >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> https://github.com/apache/flink/assets/5378924/e51aaffe-565e-46d1-90af-3900904afcc0 >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Below companies are on the thanks list for their >>> > > donation >>> > > > > to >>> > > > > > > Flink >>> > > > > > > > > > > testing infrastructure: >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > - Alibaba donated 8 machines (32vCPU,64GB) for >>> running >>> > > > > Flink >>> > > > > > > CI builds >>> > > > > > > > > > > [5]. >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > - Ververica donated 2 machines for hosting >>> flink-ci >>> > > > > > > repositories [6] >>> > > > > > > > > > > and running Flink benchmarks [7]. >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > I may miss some other donations or companies, >>> please >>> > > add >>> > > > > them >>> > > > > > > if you >>> > > > > > > > > > > know. >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to your feedback about this >>> proposal! >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Jark >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > [1]: https://flink.apache.org/ >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > [2]: >>> > > > > > > >>> https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/linking#projectthanks >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > [3]: https://hbase.apache.org/sponsors.html >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > [4]: https://mina.apache.org/special-thanks.html >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > [5]: >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/Azure+Pipelines#AzurePipelines-AvailableCustomBuildMachines >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > [6]: >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/Continuous+Integration >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > [7]: >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/41a68c775753a7841896690c75438e0a497634102e676db880f30225@%3Cdev.flink.apache.org%3E >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> >>
