+1 On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 7:26 PM Nicholas Nezis <[email protected]> wrote:
> I like those options. > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 10:15 PM Josh Fischer <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Let's wait 3 more days for anyone to give input. Then we can start a > vote > > to make a final decision on which containers for us to support. Keep in > > mind that even though we do need to plan for Python3 support (There is > work > > in progress now) we do not need it as of yet. > > > > - Josh > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 8:34 PM thinker0 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > My experience is mainly for CentOS 7, so I think it would be nice if it > > was > > > included. > > > > > > 2020년 5월 21일 (목) 오전 9:56, Josh Fischer <[email protected]>님이 작성: > > > > > > > Well thought out Windham. I like how you narrowed the criteria down > to > > > > Debian10/CentOS7(depending on PY3 support) thinking about overall > > support > > > > and what others would need/want. > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > - Josh > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 8:39 PM Windham Wong < > [email protected] > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > My experience is that, people tends to pick their container image > OS > > > > based > > > > > on few criterias only: > > > > > 1) image size, alpine always win, then debian/centos and 3rd is > > > > > ubuntu/centos. alpine is always the smallest but not much library > > > > provided > > > > > and require to compile manually. debian is always good because it > has > > > > > apt-get to provide loads of library. centos is cool as debian > because > > > it > > > > > also has good yum repo. ubuntu is always the last because it is > fat, > > > but > > > > it > > > > > provides very large range of libraries to use. > > > > > 2) kernel feature, as mentioned last email, ubuntu has issue with > DNS > > > and > > > > > some sort of network discover issues. I remember alpine has some as > > > well, > > > > > because it is very plain, requires many fine tunes be done > manually. > > in > > > > > this case, centos and debian should win. > > > > > 3) linux stream, obviously, alpine, debian/ubuntu, centos, are 3 > > > > different > > > > > streams that use different native tools. Poeple just pick their > base > > > > image > > > > > based on what they often use in their life. However, I see a lot > > debian > > > > and > > > > > alpine on docker hub because they are just smaller in size. > > > > > 4. library support. Python library is a very good example in this > > case. > > > > As > > > > > Heron is turning to Python 3, which specifically Python 3.7+, some > > > > > discontinued based OS version does not provide the support anymore. > > We > > > > have > > > > > tested out that, debian9 supports only up to Python3.5, ubuntu > 14.04 > > > does > > > > > not support python3 and ubuntu 16.04 supports up to Python 3.5 > only. > > > > > > > > > > I am not a big fan of using centos for docker. Concluding all 4 > > points > > > > > above, I believe keeping centos7 (if it supports python37), > debian10 > > > (not > > > > > debian9), ubuntu 18.04 (supports python3.7+) would be the best > > solution > > > > at > > > > > the moment. We have to cut off the old images due to our library > > > upgrade > > > > > and this is unavoidable. Otherwise, we would have tons of issues > > > sending > > > > in > > > > > about library support in the future and the workload could be a lot > > > more > > > > > for just answering questions. > > > > > > > > > > Windham Wong > > > > > Co-Founder, Technical Director of > > > > > Stormeye.io, Hong Kong Managed Security Operation Center Limited > > > > > Email // [email protected] (mailto:[email protected] > ) > > > > > Phone // +852_3590_2212_|_+852_9832_0707 (tel:+85235902212) > > > > > Fax // +852_3590_2202 (tel:+852_3590_2202) > > > > > > > > > > On 5月 19 2020, at 6:09 早上, Josh Fischer <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > Hi All, I think using CentOS and either Debian or Ubuntu is a > good > > > > idea. > > > > > I would pick Debian over Ubuntu for the reason that Nick pointed > out > > > in a > > > > > previous email of DNS issues in Kubernetes. I"ve copy and pasted a > > > > section > > > > > of Nick's previous email. ### Start I've run into issues with > Ubuntu > > > > images > > > > > having DNS issues in Kubernetes. > > > > > https://github.com/kubernetes/kubeadm/issues/787 ### End As for > what > > > > ends > > > > > up being the official Docker container I'm fine with either choice > > > Debian > > > > > or CentOS. On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 2:10 AM Ning Wang wrote: > Yeah. > > For > > > > > binary release, the license is a huge factor. > > On Sun, May 17, > > 2020 > > > at > > > > > 2:32 PM Josh Fischer wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > When it comes to > > > > choosing > > > > > the official Apache Docker image for Heron we > > have to think of > > the > > > > > licensing issues first. Everything that is > installed > > into the > > > > > container at build time with the exception of the "FROM" > > > > statement > > > in > > > > > the Dockerfile must be ALv2 compatible. OpenJDK is under > GPLv2 > > > > > > > which > > > > > is not compatible with Apache. However we can get around this if > > we > > > > > > > > > > bring the OpenJDK into the container via a FROM statement. I've > > copied > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > reply from Dave in our dev list in a previous email. See below. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ######## Start ######## > > Regarding OpenJDK and GPL2 - here is > what > > > > Roman > > > > > the VP, Legal wrote when > > answering Beam’s questions. > > > > > > Roman > > > > > Shaposhnik commented on LEGAL-503: > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > > > Hey [~altay] if > you > > > > would > > > > > like to continue linking to the Docker release > > artifact from > the > > > > > > > > > > > > https://beam.apache.org > > you will have: > > 1. Transition to > the > > > > > official ASF dockerhub org: > > https://hub.docker.com/u/apache > > > > > 2. > > > > > Start including that binary convenience artifact into your VOTE > > > > > > threads > > > > > on Beam releases > > 3. Make sure that all Cat-X licenses are ONLY > > > > brought > > > > > into your > > container via FROM statements > > ######## End > > ######## > > > > > > > > > > > > > So at the end of the day, we need to use a container that has > Java > > > > > > > > already > > installed in it so that when we create our official > image > > > we > > > > > can inherit > > that java containing image via a FROM statement. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > Josh > > > > > > On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 4:12 PM H W wrote: > > > > > > > > > We > > > > > use Centos 7 as well. > > > > > > On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 10:41 AM > > > > Nicholas > > > > > Nezis < > > [email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Some > > > > > thoughts I'd like to add to the discussion: > > > > > > > > Debian > > and > > > > > Ubuntu are somewhat similar. Would it make sense to pick > one > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > those and pair with Centos? > > > > > > > > I've run into > issues > > > with > > > > > Ubuntu images having DNS issues in > > Kubernetes. > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/kubernetes/kubeadm/issues/787 > > > > > > > > > > > Ubuntu > > > > > 14.04 should be removed. It was end of life last year. For > those > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > you using Heron in production, is anyone using Ubuntu 16? > My > > > > vote > > > > > > would > > > be > > > > to remove it also. For what it's worth, my > use > > > > case > > > > > is in K8s and we > > use > > > > the Centos7 image on a Centos 7 > OS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We should do a test of the official image and helm chart > > in > > > > > > Kubernetes > > > > (maybe with Kind https://kind.sigs.k8s.io/ ) as > > > part > > > > > of our release > > > > process. This might be nice to add as an > > > > integration > > > > > test. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On > > > > > Sun, May 17, 2020, 12:37 PM Ning Wang > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > That > > > is > > > > a > > > > > good point. We need to adjust the OS version accordingly > > too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 2:28 AM Windham Wong < > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > debian 10 has no python 2.7 support. Ubuntu 16.04 has no > > > > python > > > > > > > 3.7+ > > > > dev > > > > > > library support. hope this helps > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Sent from myMail for Android Sunday, 17 May 2020, > > > 11:34AM > > > > > +08:00 > > from > > > > > Ning > > > > > > Wang > [email protected] > > > : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > >We have > talked > > > > about > > > > > it a few times in different places. Let's > > make > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >decision here. We don't have enough resources to support many > > > > > > docker > > > > > > > > > > OSes > > > > > > >(technically we only support Debian, > > Ubuntu, > > > > and > > > > > CentOS but each > > of > > > > them > > > > > > >has multiple > > > versions). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Things we have agreed on (my > understanding) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >- for binary release, we are going to choose one OS one > > > > > version. I > > > > > > > > > > > >remember that Debian 9 was the decision. An open > > question > > > > is: > > > > > do > > we > > > > want > > > > > > to > > > > > > >switch to Debian > > 10 > > > > now? > > > > > We haven't had a binary release yet, so > > > there > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >still time. As the main target, I think 1. the image should > > > > > > compile > > > > > > > > > > > >successfully. and 2 the image should be tested: the > > tools > > > > and > > > > > an > > > > example > > > > > > >topology. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >- > > > > for > > > > > source release, we haven't talked about it very much. > > > > > > > Personally > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > >feel it is a reasonable expectation that, if we have > the > > > > > Docker > > file > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > >core > folders, > > > it > > > > > should at least compile. Otherwise, it's a > failed > > > > build > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >hence a failed release. We are not going to test run the tools > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > examples > > > > > > >for each release though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Finally, a question about OS versions. I believe at least > two > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > releases > > > > > > >should be supported because most people don't > > > > upgrade > > > > > to the > > latest > > > > > > version > > > > > > >when it is out > in > > > more > > > > > serious scenarios, hence IMO the second > > > oldest > > > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >often be more useful than the latest one from a > convenience > > > > > > > > point > > of > > > > > view. > > > > > > >On the other hand, this > is > > > too > > > > > flexible, and we will spend time > > > > thinking > > > > > > > >about > > it > > > > > again. I think a clear guideline could be helpful to > us. > > > > For > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >example: > > > > > > >- We only include only Debian (popular > > in > > > > the > > > > > server world) and > > > Ubuntu > > > > > > >(popular in servers and > > > > > workstations). > > > > > > >- for the main OS (Debian) we choose > the > > > > latest > > > > > to compile and > > test > > > > for > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > >binary > > > > > release. > > > > > > >- for a given OS, only two versions (most > > likely > > > > the > > > > > most and > the > > > > second > > > > > > >recent releases) are > > > included > > > > in > > > > > the core source code and they > > need > > > to > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >fixed ASAP if they don't compile. > > > > > > >- OSs and other > > > versions > > > > > could be included in a special folder > and > > > but > > > > > > > > > >there > > > > is > > > > > no guarantee that the code will compile. Fixes from the > > > > > > > > > community > > > > > > > > > > > >are welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >How > > > do > > > > > you guys think? > > > > > > >--ning > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
