Yeah. We have chosen Debian 10 for the binary release and clean up the license requirements for the first binary release.
In the source level, we would also like to include a few platforms/versions in the main source code to be "supported" and the others will be moved to like a "extra" folder and not actively supported/tested. On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 9:22 AM Dave Fisher <[email protected]> wrote: > I thought that the purpose of this discussion was to find the one or two > platforms for Heron to support in order to keep down the complexity of > making the first binary release for the community. > > Other platforms could be on a roadmap for future releases. > > Regards, > Dave > > > On May 26, 2020, at 12:26 PM, Ning Wang <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > My concern about "latest" is that I feel most people hold it for some > time > > before migrating to the latest version (if it ever happens). If there are > > numbers, it could make sense to use the most popular version (plus the > > other criterias). > > > > On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 12:14 PM Oliver Bristow < > [email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> Sorry if I missed the rationale for Ubuntu 18.04 instead of 20.04, but > >> would the latest LTS be a better choice? 18.04 was released before > Debian > >> 10, so that may be an argument for 20.04 re. compatibility if Debian 10 > is > >> the standard. > >> > >> There's already a 20.04 Dockerfile + I It looks like the vagrant setup > will > >> get an upgrade from 14.04 to 20.04 as a part of the python3 upgrade, and > >> seems to run fine so far. > >> > >> On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 19:30, Josh Fischer <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >>> Thanks for further clarifying. Yes, that is correct. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 1:16 PM Ning Wang <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> > >>>> +1. > >>>> > >>>> So my understanding is: > >>>> binary (in future release): Debian 10. > >>>> source: Debian 9/10 + ubuntu 18.04 + centos 7. version numbers will be > >>>> updated in the future after more discussions/votes. > >>>> > >>>> others will be moved to a "extra" folder only for reference. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 6:13 AM Josh Fischer <[email protected]> > >>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hi All, > >>>>> > >>>>> Based on what I've read on this thread a combination of CentOS/Debian > >>>> would > >>>>> be the better options for us to support multiple versions for the > >>>>> community. We will also support one version of Ubuntu. > >>>>> > >>>>> So..... I will start a vote in 72 hours that calls on the vote on > >> this. > >>>>> I'm going to write down my understanding of what this thread covers > >> to > >>>> get > >>>>> some actionable topics to vote on. If I've written anything down > >>>>> incorrectly please speak up before we start a vote. > >>>>> > >>>>> Debian: > >>>>> - Debian10 is the official docker image to support and be > >> published > >>>> to > >>>>> Docker Hub, we will also support Debian9. > >>>>> CentOS: > >>>>> - We will support CentOS7. Note, I do not think it has native > >>>>> Python3.7 support, but we are also not there yet. > >>>>> Ubuntu: > >>>>> - We will still support one version. At this time the version is > >>>> 18.04. > >>>>> > >>>>> We will upgrade supported versions of each OS as updates/deprecation > >> of > >>>>> support are needed. > >>>>> > >>>>> Again let's wait 72 hours before starting a vote. Also please check > >>> that > >>>>> the statements I wrote down are what you understood! > >>>>> > >>>>> See below for notes on lazy consensus: > >>>>> https://community.apache.org/committers/lazyConsensus.html > >>>>> > >>>>> - Josh > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 9:41 PM Ning Wang <[email protected]> > >>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> +1 > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 7:26 PM Nicholas Nezis < > >>>> [email protected] > >>>>>> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> I like those options. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 10:15 PM Josh Fischer < > >> [email protected] > >>>> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Let's wait 3 more days for anyone to give input. Then we can > >>>> start a > >>>>>>> vote > >>>>>>>> to make a final decision on which containers for us to support. > >>>> Keep > >>>>>> in > >>>>>>>> mind that even though we do need to plan for Python3 support > >>> (There > >>>>> is > >>>>>>> work > >>>>>>>> in progress now) we do not need it as of yet. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> - Josh > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 8:34 PM thinker0 <[email protected]> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> My experience is mainly for CentOS 7, so I think it would be > >>> nice > >>>>> if > >>>>>> it > >>>>>>>> was > >>>>>>>>> included. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> 2020년 5월 21일 (목) 오전 9:56, Josh Fischer <[email protected] > >>> 님이 > >>>> 작성: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Well thought out Windham. I like how you narrowed the > >>> criteria > >>>>>> down > >>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>> Debian10/CentOS7(depending on PY3 support) thinking about > >>>> overall > >>>>>>>> support > >>>>>>>>>> and what others would need/want. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> +1 > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> - Josh > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 8:39 PM Windham Wong < > >>>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> My experience is that, people tends to pick their > >> container > >>>>> image > >>>>>>> OS > >>>>>>>>>> based > >>>>>>>>>>> on few criterias only: > >>>>>>>>>>> 1) image size, alpine always win, then debian/centos and > >>> 3rd > >>>> is > >>>>>>>>>>> ubuntu/centos. alpine is always the smallest but not much > >>>>> library > >>>>>>>>>> provided > >>>>>>>>>>> and require to compile manually. debian is always good > >>>> because > >>>>> it > >>>>>>> has > >>>>>>>>>>> apt-get to provide loads of library. centos is cool as > >>> debian > >>>>>>> because > >>>>>>>>> it > >>>>>>>>>>> also has good yum repo. ubuntu is always the last because > >>> it > >>>> is > >>>>>>> fat, > >>>>>>>>> but > >>>>>>>>>> it > >>>>>>>>>>> provides very large range of libraries to use. > >>>>>>>>>>> 2) kernel feature, as mentioned last email, ubuntu has > >>> issue > >>>>> with > >>>>>>> DNS > >>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>> some sort of network discover issues. I remember alpine > >> has > >>>>> some > >>>>>> as > >>>>>>>>> well, > >>>>>>>>>>> because it is very plain, requires many fine tunes be > >> done > >>>>>>> manually. > >>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>>> this case, centos and debian should win. > >>>>>>>>>>> 3) linux stream, obviously, alpine, debian/ubuntu, > >> centos, > >>>> are > >>>>> 3 > >>>>>>>>>> different > >>>>>>>>>>> streams that use different native tools. Poeple just pick > >>>> their > >>>>>>> base > >>>>>>>>>> image > >>>>>>>>>>> based on what they often use in their life. However, I > >> see > >>> a > >>>>> lot > >>>>>>>> debian > >>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>> alpine on docker hub because they are just smaller in > >> size. > >>>>>>>>>>> 4. library support. Python library is a very good example > >>> in > >>>>> this > >>>>>>>> case. > >>>>>>>>>> As > >>>>>>>>>>> Heron is turning to Python 3, which specifically Python > >>> 3.7+, > >>>>>> some > >>>>>>>>>>> discontinued based OS version does not provide the > >> support > >>>>>> anymore. > >>>>>>>> We > >>>>>>>>>> have > >>>>>>>>>>> tested out that, debian9 supports only up to Python3.5, > >>>> ubuntu > >>>>>>> 14.04 > >>>>>>>>> does > >>>>>>>>>>> not support python3 and ubuntu 16.04 supports up to > >> Python > >>>> 3.5 > >>>>>>> only. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I am not a big fan of using centos for docker. Concluding > >>>> all 4 > >>>>>>>> points > >>>>>>>>>>> above, I believe keeping centos7 (if it supports > >> python37), > >>>>>>> debian10 > >>>>>>>>> (not > >>>>>>>>>>> debian9), ubuntu 18.04 (supports python3.7+) would be the > >>>> best > >>>>>>>> solution > >>>>>>>>>> at > >>>>>>>>>>> the moment. We have to cut off the old images due to our > >>>>> library > >>>>>>>>> upgrade > >>>>>>>>>>> and this is unavoidable. Otherwise, we would have tons of > >>>>> issues > >>>>>>>>> sending > >>>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>>> about library support in the future and the workload > >> could > >>>> be a > >>>>>> lot > >>>>>>>>> more > >>>>>>>>>>> for just answering questions. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Windham Wong > >>>>>>>>>>> Co-Founder, Technical Director of > >>>>>>>>>>> Stormeye.io, Hong Kong Managed Security Operation Center > >>>>> Limited > >>>>>>>>>>> Email // [email protected] (mailto: > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>> ) > >>>>>>>>>>> Phone // +852_3590_2212_|_+852_9832_0707 > >> (tel:+85235902212) > >>>>>>>>>>> Fax // +852_3590_2202 (tel:+852_3590_2202) > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On 5月 19 2020, at 6:09 早上, Josh Fischer < > >>> [email protected] > >>>>> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All, I think using CentOS and either Debian or > >> Ubuntu > >>>> is a > >>>>>>> good > >>>>>>>>>> idea. > >>>>>>>>>>> I would pick Debian over Ubuntu for the reason that Nick > >>>>> pointed > >>>>>>> out > >>>>>>>>> in a > >>>>>>>>>>> previous email of DNS issues in Kubernetes. I"ve copy and > >>>>> pasted > >>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>> section > >>>>>>>>>>> of Nick's previous email. ### Start I've run into issues > >>> with > >>>>>>> Ubuntu > >>>>>>>>>> images > >>>>>>>>>>> having DNS issues in Kubernetes. > >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/kubernetes/kubeadm/issues/787 ### End > >>> As > >>>>> for > >>>>>>> what > >>>>>>>>>> ends > >>>>>>>>>>> up being the official Docker container I'm fine with > >> either > >>>>>> choice > >>>>>>>>> Debian > >>>>>>>>>>> or CentOS. On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 2:10 AM Ning Wang > >>> wrote: > > >>>>>> Yeah. > >>>>>>>> For > >>>>>>>>>>> binary release, the license is a huge factor. > > On Sun, > >>> May > >>>>> 17, > >>>>>>>> 2020 > >>>>>>>>> at > >>>>>>>>>>> 2:32 PM Josh Fischer wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > When it > >>>> comes > >>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>> choosing > >>>>>>>>>>> the official Apache Docker image for Heron we > > have to > >>>> think > >>>>>> of > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>> licensing issues first. Everything that is > installed > > >>> > >>>> into > >>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>> container at build time with the exception of the "FROM" > >>> > >>>> > >>>>>>>> statement > >>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>>> the Dockerfile must be ALv2 compatible. OpenJDK is under > >>> > >>>>> GPLv2 > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> which > >>>>>>>>>>> is not compatible with Apache. However we can get around > >>> this > >>>>> if > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> we > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> bring the OpenJDK into the container via a FROM > >> statement. > >>>> I've > >>>>>>>> copied > >>>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> reply from Dave in our dev list in a previous email. > >> See > >>>>> below. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> ######## Start ######## > > Regarding OpenJDK and GPL2 - > >>> here > >>>>> is > >>>>>>> what > >>>>>>>>>> Roman > >>>>>>>>>>> the VP, Legal wrote when > > answering Beam’s questions. > >>> > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Roman > >>>>>>>>>>> Shaposhnik commented on LEGAL-503: > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------- > > > > Hey > >>> [~altay] > >>>>> if > >>>>>>> you > >>>>>>>>>> would > >>>>>>>>>>> like to continue linking to the Docker release > > > >> artifact > >>>>> from > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> https://beam.apache.org > > you will have: > > 1. > >>> Transition > >>>>> to > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>> official ASF dockerhub org: > > > >>>>> https://hub.docker.com/u/apache > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> 2. > >>>>>>>>>>> Start including that binary convenience artifact into > >> your > >>>> VOTE > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> threads > >>>>>>>>>>> on Beam releases > > 3. Make sure that all Cat-X licenses > >>> are > >>>>>> ONLY > >>>>>>>>>> brought > >>>>>>>>>>> into your > > container via FROM statements > > ######## > >>> End > >>>>>>>> ######## > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> So at the end of the day, we need to use a container > >> that > >>>> has > >>>>>>> Java > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> already > > installed in it so that when we create our > >>>> official > >>>>>>> image > >>>>>>>>> we > >>>>>>>>>>> can inherit > > that java containing image via a FROM > >>>>> statement. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>>> Josh > > > > > > On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 4:12 PM H W > >>> wrote: > > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> We > >>>>>>>>>>> use Centos 7 as well. > > > > > > On Sun, May 17, 2020 at > >>>> 10:41 > >>>>>> AM > >>>>>>>>>> Nicholas > >>>>>>>>>>> Nezis < > > [email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Some > >>>>>>>>>>> thoughts I'd like to add to the discussion: > > > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>> Debian > >>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>> Ubuntu are somewhat similar. Would it make sense to pick > >>> > >>>> one > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> those and pair with Centos? > > > > > > > > I've run > >>> into > >>>>>>> issues > >>>>>>>>> with > >>>>>>>>>>> Ubuntu images having DNS issues in > > Kubernetes. > > > > >>> > >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/kubernetes/kubeadm/issues/787 > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Ubuntu > >>>>>>>>>>> 14.04 should be removed. It was end of life last year. > >> For > >>>> > >>>>>> those > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you using Heron in production, is anyone using > >>> Ubuntu > >>>>> 16? > >>>>>>> My > >>>>>>>>>> vote > > >>>>>>>>>>> would > > > be > > > > to remove it also. For what it's > >>>> worth, > >>>>> my > >>>>>>> use > >>>>>>>>>> case > >>>>>>>>>>> is in K8s and we > > use > > > > the Centos7 image on a > >>>> Centos > >>>>> 7 > >>>>>>> OS. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We should do a test of the official image and > >>> helm > >>>>>> chart > >>>>>>>> in > > >>>>>>>>>>> Kubernetes > > > > (maybe with Kind > >>>> https://kind.sigs.k8s.io/ > >>>>> ) > >>>>>> as > >>>>>>>>> part > >>>>>>>>>>> of our release > > > > process. This might be nice to add > >>> as > >>>> an > >>>>>>>>>> integration > >>>>>>>>>>> test. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On > >>>>>>>>>>> Sun, May 17, 2020, 12:37 PM Ning Wang > wrote: > > > > > > >>> > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> That > >>>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>>> good point. We need to adjust the OS version accordingly > >>> > >>>> > >>>>>> too. > > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 2:28 AM Windham Wong < > >>> > >>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > >>> > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> debian 10 has no python 2.7 support. Ubuntu > >> 16.04 > >>>> has > >>>>>> no > >>>>>>>>>> python > > >>>>>>>>>>>> 3.7+ > > > > dev > > > > > > library support. hope this > >>>> helps > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > > > Sent from myMail for Android Sunday, 17 > >> May > >>>>> 2020, > >>>>>>>>> 11:34AM > >>>>>>>>>>> +08:00 > > from > > > > > Ning > > > > > > Wang > >>>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>>>> : > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > >We > >>> have > >>>>>>> talked > >>>>>>>>>> about > >>>>>>>>>>> it a few times in different places. Let's > > make > > > > >> a > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> decision here. We don't have enough resources to support > >>>> many > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> docker > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OSes > > > > > > >(technically we only support > >>>> Debian, > >>>>>>>> Ubuntu, > >>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>> CentOS but each > > of > > > > them > > > > > > >has > >>> multiple > >>>>>>>>> versions). > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Things we have agreed on (my > >>>>>>> understanding) > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - for binary release, we are going to choose one > >> OS > >>>> one > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> version. I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remember that Debian 9 was the decision. An > >>> open > >>>>>>>> question > >>>>>>>>>> is: > >>>>>>>>>>> do > > we > > > > want > > > > > > to > > > > > > >switch > >>> to > >>>>>> Debian > >>>>>>>> 10 > >>>>>>>>>> now? > >>>>>>>>>>> We haven't had a binary release yet, so > > > there > > > > >>>>> > >>>>> is > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> still time. As the main target, I think 1. the image > >>>> should > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> compile > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> successfully. and 2 the image should be > >>> tested: > >>>>> the > >>>>>>>> tools > >>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>> an > > > > example > > > > > > >topology. > > > > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> - > >>>>>>>>>> for > >>>>>>>>>>> source release, we haven't talked about it very much. > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Personally > >>>>>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feel it is a reasonable expectation that, if > >>> we > >>>>> have > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>> Docker > > file > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >>>> core > >>>>>>> folders, > >>>>>>>>> it > >>>>>>>>>>> should at least compile. Otherwise, it's a > failed > > > >>>> > >>>>>> build > > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> hence a failed release. We are not going to test run > >> the > >>>>>> tools > > >>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> examples > > > > > > >for each release though. > > >>> > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Finally, a question about OS versions. I believe > >> at > >>>>> least > >>>>>>> two > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> releases > > > > > > >should be supported because most > >>> people > >>>>>> don't > >>>>>>>>>> upgrade > >>>>>>>>>>> to the > > latest > > > > > > version > > > > > > >when > >> it > >>> is > >>>>> out > >>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>> more > >>>>>>>>>>> serious scenarios, hence IMO the second > > > oldest > > > >>> > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>> could > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often be more useful than the latest one from a > >>>>>>> convenience > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> point > > of > > > > > view. > > > > > > >On the other > >>> hand, > >>>>> this > >>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>> too > >>>>>>>>>>> flexible, and we will spend time > > > > thinking > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>>> about > >>>>>>>> it > >>>>>>>>>>> again. I think a clear guideline could be helpful to > > >> us. > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> For > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example: > > > > > > >- We only include only > >> Debian > >>>>>> (popular > >>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>> server world) and > > > Ubuntu > > > > > > >(popular in > >>>> servers > >>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>> workstations). > > > > > > >- for the main OS (Debian) we > >>>>> choose > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>> latest > >>>>>>>>>>> to compile and > > test > > > > for > > > > > > our > > > >>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> binary > >>>>>>>>>>> release. > > > > > > >- for a given OS, only two versions > >>>> (most > >>>>>>>> likely > >>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>> most and > the > > > > second > > > > > > >recent > >> releases) > >>>> are > >>>>>>>>> included > >>>>>>>>>> in > >>>>>>>>>>> the core source code and they > > need > > > to > > > > > > >>> be > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> fixed ASAP if they don't compile. > > > > > > >- OSs and > >>>> other > >>>>>>>>> versions > >>>>>>>>>>> could be included in a special folder > and > > > but > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> there > >>>>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>>>> no guarantee that the code will compile. Fixes from the > > >>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> community > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are welcome. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> How > >>>>>>>>> do > >>>>>>>>>>> you guys think? > > > > > > >--ning > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > >
