*to thank* (oh my)
> Am 09.11.2018 um 16:51 schrieb Stefan Eissing <[email protected]>:
>
> I would like all who replied in this thread for their feedback. It is good
> to hear that many are looking forward to frequent releases, especially as
> the field we are all working in continues to develop.
>
> Apache httpd is a server capable of many things, all configurable in various
> ways and even extendable by modules beyond our control here. In short, the
> combinations in which this software is used is beyond our capabilities to
> verify absolutely.
>
> That makes it tricky, when bringing in "new stuff", not to break anything.
> Because, frankly, before it breaks, we are not always aware that it was used
> that way. (Would we be, we would have tried to fix is before release -
> ideally).
>
> So, the chance is high that releases we do will work for most of you.
> AND the chance is high that releases might break something for some of you
> (hopefully a few).
>
> We can wiggle the probabilities by a range of activities:
> - more test cases
> - less new features
> but we will never eliminate them. Complexity is too high.
>
> That is where distros play a crucial role, IMO, as they invest in
> stabilization of the many products they integrate and, as a user,
> you can select from a range of options depending on your willingness
> to bleed vs. desire for stability.
>
> But people who directly use the product from us are as least as
> important. I got a lot of feedback on HTTP/2 that way (read: you
> found my mistakes) and the quality we have today would not have been
> possible without that. Which benefits everyone. So, thank you!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stefan
>
>> Am 09.11.2018 um 15:54 schrieb Moradhassel, Kavian <[email protected]>:
>>
>> +1 (as one of the 99.9999999999%)
>>
>> In particular: "I'd prefer frequent releases and honest changelogs."
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Niklas Edmundsson <[email protected]>
>> Reply-To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
>> Date: Friday, November 9, 2018 at 8:10 AM
>> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
>> Subject: [**EXTERNAL**] Re: 2.4.38
>>
>>
>> I usually don't like top-posts, but I just want to say that I agree
>> completely with everything Barry stated below.
>>
>> If you as an admin want an easy life, use the distro version.
>>
>> If you have good reasons to build yourself simply suck it up and
>> accept the maintenance pain (which it is, since you need to cater for
>> updating all the dependencies as well if you want all the latest in
>> features/fixes). And do read the release notes and upgrade only when
>> there is a need.
>>
>> Btw, regular releases increases the chance of distros picking up a
>> somewhat current version with known fixes when they roll a new distro
>> release.
>>
>> I'd prefer frequent releases and honest changelogs. I'm more scared by
>> projects that have no releases, since that tends to show dead
>> development or some kind of idealistic view that software can be
>> "finished" and not needing any more work done on it...
>>
>>> On Fri, 9 Nov 2018, Barry Pollard wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Disagree. My 2 cents as a watcher, administrator and user:
>>>
>>> 1/ they have better things to do
>>>
>>> Then don’t take the release! If a release contains security patches (so
>>> they should take it), then I don’t see how hiding the issue by holding back
>>> the release helps.
>>>
>>> 2/ it gives impression of immature and buggy software - this gives thoughts
>>> towards alternatives, IRC shows many admins have no loyalty todays much of
>>> todays software (well, windows fanbois excepted.
>>>
>>> Massively disagree. Frequent release to me give the impression of an
>>> actively maintained and evolving project. And there are a lot of changes in
>>> the HTTP space (HTTP/2, move to encryption, increased awareness on
>>> security...etc.).
>>>
>>> 3/ As a consequence of 1 & 2, they will not upgrade, this might be trivial
>>> for little thigs, but when a nasty bug comes out, this is what comes to
>>> mind" oh fsck it, we just upgraded httpd last week, screw it, we'll wait"
>>> - they get bitten, CIOs demand heads, remaining souls dump httpd and
>>> install nginx or some other alternative
>>>
>>> Discussed above. And nginx releases monthly (http://nginx.org/en/CHANGES)
>>> which I’d be happy if Apache HTTPD moved to.
>>>
>>> 4/ dont be fooled into thinking its the package managers role, many
>>> networks run on RedHat EL, SuseEL, and debian, but far from all - and even
>>> those distro package maintainers get sick to F'n death of it after a while
>>> and skip updates.
>>>
>>> I do wish Apache would run its own “official” repo to make upgrading to
>>> latest easier. Don’t have the expertise to help with this and understand it
>>> was done in the past and given up due to lack of people who did but still
>>> think it’s a shame we don’t. I think this is an area nginx does stand out.
>>> Upgrading Nginx is often as simple as “yum update” or “apt-get”. They even
>>> run a repo for their mainline version for those that want to be bleeding
>>> edge.
>>>
>>> Do not be delusional - this has happened many times before.
>>>
>>> I give you dovecot as example, it wasnt that long ago a new release was
>>> coming out weekly, sometimes only a few days apart, people get sick of
>>> updating, some people are still today running versions a year old because
>>> of it, I know of a few who moved to "courier", an oldy but a goody.
>>>
>>> And some people are still running Apache Httpd 2.2 or 2.4.6. I don’t think
>>> that’s anything to do with the frequency of releases.
>>>
>>> The release often mentality might be good for a new nurturing project, but
>>> that is not httpd.
>>>
>>> System admins want stability.
>>>
>>> Maybe, but that’s not the world we live in. And others want features and we
>>> shouldn’t give the impression Httpd is legacy because it lacks the features
>>> other web servers may have. Stay on packages managed version of 2.4.6 if
>>> you want and just take the security updates that your package manager is
>>> responsible to include.
>>>
>>
>>
>> /Nikke
>> --
>> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
>> Niklas Edmundsson, Admin @ {acc,hpc2n}.umu.se | [email protected]
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> If life had a vomit meter, we'd be off the scale.
>> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>>
>
