Hi folks, Happy feature freeze day! Please remember that the big chunks of your KIPs must be merged by today. In practice, I plan to cut the release branch on Monday so you have a few more days. If you cannot make it, please reachout to me to discuss how to proceed. I will go and remove the KIPs which are not ready from the release plan on Monday too.
Alyssa/Colin: Thanks for reaching out to me about KIP-966. It seems to me that https://github.com/ahuang98/kafka/pull/2 is a pretty large change for after the feature freeze. How do you quantify the risk? Do we have a way back in case we cannot make it or if we discover issues? Andrew/Divij: Thanks! Luke: Good catch! I also stumbled upon it yesterday. Let's wait for Ismael. Best, David On Tue, Dec 10, 2024 at 7:56 PM Colin McCabe <cmcc...@apache.org> wrote: > On Mon, Dec 9, 2024, at 11:33, Alyssa Huang wrote: > > Hey David and folks, > > > > I wanted to discuss the possibility of merging in KIP-996 (PreVote) in > two > > phases in order to make the 4.0 release. > > Part 1 <https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/17807> (Vote RPC includes > > PreVote field) by feature freeze > > Part 2 <https://github.com/ahuang98/kafka/pull/2> (new internal > Prospective > > QuorumState and response handling) by code freeze > > > > Best, > > Alyssa > > > > +1 frorm me. What do you think David? > > Colin > > > > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2024 at 1:51 AM Andrew Schofield < > > andrew_schofield_j...@outlook.com> wrote: > > > >> Hi David, > >> I have added KIP-1043. With the exception of one method deprecation > >> which I intend to do in 4.1, it's done. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Andrew > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: Divij Vaidya <divijvaidy...@gmail.com> > >> Sent: 02 December 2024 19:45 > >> To: dev@kafka.apache.org <dev@kafka.apache.org> > >> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Apache Kafka 4.0.0 release > >> > >> Hey David > >> > >> Thank you for patiently waiting for KIP-1030 [1]. It is now accepted > and I > >> have updated the release plan with the KIP. > >> > >> [1] > >> > >> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-1030%3A+Change+constraints+and+default+values+for+various+configurations > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Divij Vaidya > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 26, 2024 at 9:37 AM TengYao Chi <kiting...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >> > Hello David, > >> > > >> > I’ve just added KIP-653, which aims to upgrade Log4j to Log4j2. > >> > This KIP was accepted a long time ago, and the PR is now almost ready. > >> > I’m currently working on it. > >> > > >> > Best regards, > >> > TengYao > >> > > >> > > >> > David Jacot <dja...@confluent.io.invalid> 於 2024年11月26日 週二 下午4:23寫道： > >> > > >> > > Thanks, Luke! > >> > > > >> > > On Tue, Nov 26, 2024 at 9:16 AM Luke Chen <show...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > > > >> > > > Hi David, > >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks for checking the KIPs. > >> > > > I've just added KIP-1011 that Ziming mentioned above into the > release > >> > > plan, > >> > > > and confirmed it is already in accepted status. > >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks. > >> > > > Luke > >> > > > > >> > > > On Tue, Nov 26, 2024 at 4:10 PM David Jacot < > david.ja...@gmail.com> > >> > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > > Hi all, > >> > > > > > >> > > > > I just checked the release plan and it does not contain any > >> > > > > non-accepted KIPs. I added a few other accepted KIPs too. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > The feature freeze is on Dec. 11th. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Best, > >> > > > > David > >> > > > > > >> > > > > On Tue, Nov 26, 2024 at 8:38 AM David Jacot < > david.ja...@gmail.com > >> > > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Hi PoAn/Ziming, > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Thanks for adding those to the release plan! > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Best, > >> > > > > > David > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Tue, Nov 26, 2024 at 4:25 AM Ziming Deng < > >> > > dengziming1...@gmail.com> > >> > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Hi David & Luke, > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Thanks for driving the release, let’s add KIP-1011 to the > >> release > >> > > > plan > >> > > > > which should have beed released in 3.7.0, after postpone doing > it > >> we > >> > > can > >> > > > > directly remove deprecated alterConfigs from ConfgCommand to > avoid > >> > > making > >> > > > > our code dirty. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > --, > >> > > > > > > Ziming > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On Nov 20, 2024, at 18:04, David Jacot > >> > > <dja...@confluent.io.INVALID > >> > > > > > >> > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Hi all, > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > This is a friendly reminder that the KIP freeze deadline > is > >> > > today. > >> > > > > As we > >> > > > > > > > have a few KIPs getting close to be accepted, I will wait > >> until > >> > > > > Monday to > >> > > > > > > > compile the final list. Please update the status of your > >> KIPs. > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > The next deadline is the Features freeze on Dec 11th. > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Cheers, > >> > > > > > > > David > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Cheers, > >> > > > > > > > David > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 20, 2024 at 12:02 PM David Jacot < > >> > > dja...@confluent.io> > >> > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Hi Divij, > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> I think that we can make a small exception for KIP-1030 > but > >> we > >> > > > > cannot wait > >> > > > > > > >> too long. How long do you need to close it? Ideally, we > >> should > >> > > aim > >> > > > > for > >> > > > > > > >> closing it in the next two weeks. If we cannot do it, we > may > >> > > have > >> > > > to > >> > > > > > > >> discuss it again. Please keep me posted. > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> BR, > >> > > > > > > >> David > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> On Wed, Nov 20, 2024 at 5:16 AM Luke Chen < > >> show...@gmail.com> > >> > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >>> Hi Tina, > >> > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > >>> I've added KIP-1073 into the release plan. > >> > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > >>> Thanks. > >> > > > > > > >>> Luke > >> > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > >>> On Wed, Nov 20, 2024 at 5:26 AM Gantigmaa Selenge < > >> > > > > gsele...@redhat.com> > >> > > > > > > >>> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > >>>> Hi David, > >> > > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>> KIP-1073 I mentioned in my previous email has now > passed > >> the > >> > > > > voting so > >> > > > > > > >>> it > >> > > > > > > >>>> does not need an exceptional extension anymore. Can we > >> > please > >> > > > > include > >> > > > > > > >>> it in > >> > > > > > > >>>> the release plan? > >> > > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>> Thank you. > >> > > > > > > >>>> Regards, > >> > > > > > > >>>> Tina > >> > > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>> On Tue, Nov 19, 2024 at 3:04 PM Gantigmaa Selenge < > >> > > > > gsele...@redhat.com> > >> > > > > > > >>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>> Hi, > >> > > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>> Can I also please request an exceptional extension for > >> > > KIP-1073 > >> > > > > [1] > >> > > > > > > >>> which > >> > > > > > > >>>>> allows getting fenced brokers via AdminClient. This is > >> > > > > particularly > >> > > > > > > >>>>> important when scaling down a KRaft cluster, because > >> > brokers > >> > > > > need to > >> > > > > > > >>> be > >> > > > > > > >>>>> unregistered first but currently there is no way to > list > >> > the > >> > > > > brokers > >> > > > > > > >>> in > >> > > > > > > >>>>> order to unregister once they are shut down/fenced. > >> > > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>> This KIP has been open for voting for over a month and > >> has > >> > > > > currently 2 > >> > > > > > > >>>>> binding +1 and 1 non binding +1 [2]. I also have > raised a > >> > > draft > >> > > > > PR for > >> > > > > > > >>>> the > >> > > > > > > >>>>> implementation [3]. > >> > > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>> Since it's missing just one more binding +1 and the > >> > > > > implementation is > >> > > > > > > >>>>> ready for review, it would be great to include it in > >> 4.0.0. > >> > > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>> [1] > >> > > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-1073%3A+Return+fenced+brokers+in+DescribeCluster+response > >> > > > > > > >>>>> [2] > >> > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/zm5kk9st54rj6t5pw9v1dnxhk64mho4m > >> > > > > > > >>>>> [3] https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/17524 > >> > > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>> Regards, > >> > > > > > > >>>>> Tina > >> > > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>> On Tue, Nov 19, 2024 at 12:14 PM Luke Chen < > >> > > show...@gmail.com> > >> > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> Hi Divij, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> I agree we _should_ include it into v4.0.0 to make > the > >> > kafka > >> > > > > default > >> > > > > > > >>>> value > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> more reasonable, instead of doing it until v5.0.0. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> What do you think, @David Jacot <dja...@confluent.io> > ? > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> Thanks. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> Luke > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> On Tue, Nov 19, 2024 at 7:01 PM Divij Vaidya < > >> > > > > > > >>> divijvaidy...@gmail.com> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> Hey David > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> Can I please request an exceptional extension for > >> > KIP-1030 > >> > > > [1] > >> > > > > > > >>> which > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> aims > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> to change configuration defaults and add some new > >> > > constraints > >> > > > > for > >> > > > > > > >>> our > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> configuration? Since these are backward incompatible > >> > > changes, > >> > > > > if > >> > > > > > > >>> they > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> don't > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> go out in 4.0, the earliest we could release them > would > >> > be > >> > > > the > >> > > > > next > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> major > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> version. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> I understand that the KIP was filed last minute very > >> > close > >> > > to > >> > > > > the > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> freeze. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> Given the benefit to operational load of Kafka > >> > maintenance > >> > > > > this KIP > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> could > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> have, I would request to consider this KIP for 4.0 > even > >> > > after > >> > > > > the > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> freeze. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> [1] > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-1030%3A+Change+constraints+and+default+values+for+various+configurations > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> -- > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> Divij Vaidya > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 13, 2024 at 3:13 PM David Jacot > >> > > > > > > >>>> <dja...@confluent.io.invalid > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Hi all, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> This is a friendly reminder that the KIP freeze is > on > >> > 20th > >> > > > > > > >>> November > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> 2024, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> one week from today. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Best, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> David > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2024 at 5:09 AM Luke Chen < > >> > > show...@gmail.com > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Hi Kamal, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Just added them in to the release plan. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Thanks. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Luke > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2024 at 11:11 AM Kamal > Chandraprakash > >> < > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> kamal.chandraprak...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Hi Luke, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Please add the KIP-1058 and KIP-1105 to the > release > >> > > plan. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> KIP-1058 is accepted and PRs are ready. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> KIP-1105 is a minor one, and will open a voting > >> thread > >> > > > soon. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Thanks, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Kamal > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2024 at 7:28 AM Luke Chen < > >> > > > show...@gmail.com > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Alyssa, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I've added KIP-966 into the release plan. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Luke > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 7, 2024 at 3:54 AM Alyssa Huang > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> <ahu...@confluent.io.invalid > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks David for being the release manager for > >> 4.0! > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I noticed the release plan > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> < > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/Release+Plan+4.0.0 > >> > > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> does > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> not yet have KIP-996 (Pre-Vote) listed, can I > edit > >> > the > >> > > > > > > >>> page > >> > > > > > > >>>> to > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> add > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> it? > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Best, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Alyssa > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 20, 2024 at 11:36 AM Colin McCabe < > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> cmcc...@apache.org> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi TengYao Chi, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The KIP freeze for Apache Kafka 4.0 is. > November > >> > > 20th. > >> > > > > > > >>> So > >> > > > > > > >>>> if > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> KIP-1092 > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> has > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> been accepted already, it should make it into > 4.0 > >> > > > > > > >>> without > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> any > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> further > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> discussion (assuming the code is ready by > feature > >> > > > > > > >>> freeze.) > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Colin > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 18, 2024, at 20:32, TengYao Chi > >> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi David, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to request the inclusion of > >> KIP-1092 > >> > in > >> > > > > > > >>> the > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> 4.0 > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> release > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> plan. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This KIP is newly accepted, and I believe it > >> will > >> > > > > > > >>> bring > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> valuable > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> enhancements for both the Consumer and Kafka > >> > Streams > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> components. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for considering this addition. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> TengYao > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Colin McCabe <cmcc...@apache.org> 於 > 2024年10月11日 > >> > 週五 > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> 上午12:22寫道： > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes (although I don't believe there's a JIRA > >> for > >> > > > > > > >>> that > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> specifically > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> yet.) > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Colin > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2024, at 09:11, David Jacot > >> > wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Colin, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks. That seems perfect. Does it include > >> > > > > > > >>> removing > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> --zookeeper > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> from > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> command line tools (e.g. kafka-configs)? > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2024 at 6:06 PM Colin > McCabe < > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> cmcc...@apache.org> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi David & Luke, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We have been using > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-17611 > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> as > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the umbrella JIRA for ZK removal tasks. > >> > Progress > >> > > > > > > >>>> has > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> been > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> pretty > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rapid, I > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do think we will get there by January. > (Well > >> > > > > > > >>>> hopefully > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> even > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> earlier > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> :) > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Colin > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2024, at 05:55, David > Jacot > >> > > > > > > >>> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Luke, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's a good point. I think that we > should > >> > > > > > > >>> try to > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> stick > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> to > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> the > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> dates > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though. In my opinion, we should ensure > that > >> > ZK > >> > > > > > > >>>> and > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> all > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> the > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> related > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> facing apis are gone in 4.0 by code > freeze. > >> > The > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> simplest > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> way > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> would > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> be > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have an epic for the removal with all the > >> > > > > > > >>> related > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> tasks. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> We > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> can > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> then > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mark > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it as a blocker for 4.0. We may already > have > >> > > > > > > >>> one. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> Let > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> me > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> search > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2024 at 2:43 PM Luke > Chen < > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> show...@gmail.com > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi David, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The release plan looks good to me. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But since the 4.0 release is a release > >> > without > >> > > > > > > >>>> ZK, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> I'm > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> wondering > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> if > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should list some release criteria for > it? > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Problem I can imagine is like, when > the > >> > > > > > > >>> code > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> freeze > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> date > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> is > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reached, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but there are still many ZK removal > tasks > >> > > > > > > >>> open, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> what > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> should > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> we > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> do > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them? We can remove the rest of codes in > >> > later > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> releases, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> but > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> if > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> there > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still some public APIs related to ZK > open > >> for > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> users to > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> use, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> is > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> that > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK to release 4.0? Ex: The `--zookeeper` > >> > > > > > > >>> option > >> > > > > > > >>>> in > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> kafka-configs.sh? > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Instead of only using time-based > management > >> > in > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> v4.0, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> I'm > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> suggesting > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should list some "must-do" tasks and > track > >> > > > > > > >>> them > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> when > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> milestone > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> date > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> approaches. And we can discuss with the > >> > > > > > > >>> community > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> if > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> there > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> are > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> some > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delayed > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tasks. Does that make sense? > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Luke > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 9:29 PM David > Jacot > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <dja...@confluent.io.invalid > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have drafted the release plan for > Apache > >> > > > > > > >>>> Kafka > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> 4.0.0: > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/Release+Plan+4.0.0 > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> . > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please take a look and let me know what > >> you > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> think. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would also appreciate it if you could > >> > > > > > > >>> review > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> the > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> list > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> of > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> KIPs > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ship in this release. I took the > list > >> > > > > > > >>> from > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> the > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> approved > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> list > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wiki but I am pretty sure that the > list is > >> > > > > > > >>> not > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> accurate. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Davud > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 25, 2024 at 5:02 AM Luke > Chen > >> < > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> show...@gmail.com> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 from me. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since v4.0 will be a huge change > release, > >> > > > > > > >>> I'm > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> not > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> sure > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> if > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> you > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person (vice release manager?) to > help on > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> releasing > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> tasks. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, I'm willing to help. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Luke > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 25, 2024 at 1:33 AM Colin > >> > > > > > > >>> McCabe > >> > > > > > > >>>> < > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> cmcc...@apache.org > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1. Thanks, David. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Colin > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 23, 2024, at 10:11, Chris > >> > > > > > > >>>> Egerton > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks David! +1 > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 23, 2024, 13:07 José > >> > > > > > > >>> Armando > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> García > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Sancio > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <jsan...@confluent.io.invalid> > wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1, thanks for volunteering David! > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 23, 2024 at 11:56 AM > >> > > > > > > >>> David > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> Arthur < > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mum...@gmail.com> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1, thanks David! > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 23, 2024 at 11:48 AM > >> > > > > > > >>>> Satish > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Duggana < > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satish.dugg...@gmail.com> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks David for volunteering! > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 23 Sept 2024 at 19:27, > >> > > > > > > >>>> Lianet > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> M. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> < > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> liane...@gmail.com> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks David! > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 23, 2024, 9:54 a.m. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> Justine > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Olshan > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <jols...@confluent.io.invalid> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 and thanks! > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 23, 2024 at > >> > > > > > > >>> 6:36 AM > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Chia-Ping > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Tsai > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> < > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chia7...@gmail.com > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 and thanks David for > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> volunteering! > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chia-Ping > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Josep Prat > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> <josep.p...@aiven.io.invalid > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> 於 > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2024年9月23日 > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 週一 > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 下午9:13寫道： > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks David for > >> > > > > > > >>>> volunteering! > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +1 > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 23, 2024 at > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> 3:11 PM > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> David > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Jacot > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <dja...@confluent.io.invalid > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to > >> > > > > > > >>> volunteer > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> to be > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> the > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> release > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manager > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> driving > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> next > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> release - Apache Kafka > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> 4.0.0. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If there are no > >> > > > > > > >>>> objections, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> I'll > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> start > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> building a > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> release > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plan > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wiki > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the next couple of > >> > > > > > > >>>> days. > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Aiven] < > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> https://www.aiven.io/ > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Josep Prat* > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Open Source Engineering > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> Director, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> *Aiven* > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> josep.p...@aiven.io | > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> +491715557497 > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aiven.io < > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> https://www.aiven.io/> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> | > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> < > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/aivencloud > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> < > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/aiven/ > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> < > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>> https://twitter.com/aiven_io> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Aiven Deutschland GmbH* > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexanderufer 3-7, 10117 > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> Berlin > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Geschäftsführer: Oskari > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> Saarenmaa, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Hannu > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Valtonen, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anna Richardson, Kenneth > >> > > > > > > >>>> Chen > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amtsgericht > >> > > > > > > >>> Charlottenburg, > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> HRB > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> 209739 > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> B > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Arthur > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -José > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>>> > >> > > > > > > >>>> > >> > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> >
