Thanks David will look into this later this night :)

regards, Achim

2011/4/20 David Jencks <[email protected]>:
> Achim sent me his framework directory privately at which point I discovered 
> that git had not checked in the bin directories in framework and full.  I 
> found that my local copies still had .svn files in them... does that confuse 
> git into thinking the directories don't exist?  Even after I removed the .svn 
> files git didn't notice them....
>
> I added the files by hand to my svn checkout and checked them in so they 
> should be available now.  When I tried git svn rebase it finally noticed the 
> files and said
>
> error: The following untracked working tree files would be overwritten by 
> checkout:
> <the files it didn't notice previously or indeed after the rebase attempt>
>
> I guess git is not entirely bug free.
>
> Anyway maybe others will be able to build new-style server assemblies now.
>
> thanks
> david jencks
>
> On Apr 19, 2011, at 12:36 PM, David Jencks wrote:
>
>> Hi Achim,
>>
>> I looked over the kar archiving code and didn't see anything mac or osx 
>> specific so I think I'm going to need some help investigating what's going 
>> on on other systems.  Maybe if you or someone could zip up the target folder 
>> of the framework kar and send it to me I could try and think of a clue of 
>> what is going wrong....
>>
>> thanks
>> david jencks
>>
>> On Apr 19, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Achim Nierbeck wrote:
>>
>>> Hi David,
>>>
>>> thanks for fixing :)
>>>
>>> I'm partially trying to get 2.2.1 going, that's probably why 3.0
>>> doesn't get a good testing :)
>>> By the way of testing, last time I looked into the kar produced
>>> artifacts, the bin folder wasn't still included.
>>>
>>> regards, Achim
>>>
>>> 2011/4/19 David Jencks <[email protected]>:
>>>> I looked into this more and found that I'd made the default start value 
>>>> false rather than true in the jaxb model.  I added some comments to the 
>>>> schema copes and fixed this, now features appear to start automatically 
>>>> when installed.
>>>>
>>>> This problem didn't have anything to do with boot features.... which 
>>>> indicates to me that trunk is not getting any significant testing..... not 
>>>> a good sign if we want to release it soon.
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>> david jencks
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 19, 2011, at 4:32 AM, Christian Schneider wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> +1
>>>>> For auto starting features by default
>>>>>
>>>>> Christian
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 19.04.2011 09:05, schrieb Achim Nierbeck:
>>>>>> hm,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I only have one open question, the other "standard" features like war
>>>>>> and webconsole, when I install those features the bundles stay in
>>>>>> installed state, and some
>>>>>> of those bundles are supposed to be system bundles, e.g. the web
>>>>>> console bundle. I kind of miss the standard behaviour of installing a
>>>>>> feature and all bundles are up and running. How do we get around that?
>>>>>> And actually the current behavior of installing a feature and those
>>>>>> features are right available is one of the best things about the
>>>>>> features. I'd rather like to see it the other way round.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Default behavior should be the same as before, if a feature is
>>>>>> installed all bundles are started right away, if I don't want it that
>>>>>> way I need to add a special flag like --nostart or something.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> regards, Achim
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2011/4/19 David Jencks<[email protected]>:
>>>>>>> In r1094800 I adopted these ideas.  The biggest change to review is 
>>>>>>> adding a "forceStart" option to the FeaturesService options.  This is 
>>>>>>> so we can assure that all bundles in boot features get started.   I 
>>>>>>> thought I remembered a -s features:install option that would start all 
>>>>>>> the bundles, but it doesn't seem to be there today.  If no one objects 
>>>>>>> to this enum option I think we should add the command option.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In addition I made a new feature called "standard" in the standard 
>>>>>>> features which contains the stuff from framework that can easily be 
>>>>>>> installed as a boot feature.  I also made the full kar's feature 
>>>>>>> installed as a boot feature.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The servers (old and new) seem to start OK for me and have the expected 
>>>>>>> content.  Please check for problems.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>>> david jencks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Apr 18, 2011, at 12:15 AM, David Jencks wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think there's a problem with boot features, and I think we don't see 
>>>>>>>> it with the old style assemblies because the bundles are in fact all 
>>>>>>>> listed in the startup.properties as well as as boot features.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are 3 bundles in other parts of the startup.properties that 
>>>>>>>> depend on  Apache Karaf :: Management (3.0.0.SNAPSHOT):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [  14] [Installed  ] [            ] [   30] Apache Karaf :: Diagnostic 
>>>>>>>> :: Management (3.0.0.SNAPSHOT)
>>>>>>>> [  16] [Installed  ] [            ] [   30] Apache Karaf :: Features 
>>>>>>>> :: Management (3.0.0.SNAPSHOT)
>>>>>>>> [  19] [Installed  ] [            ] [   30] Apache Karaf :: Admin :: 
>>>>>>>> Management (3.0.0.SNAPSHOT)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even if I put the feature core bundle at start level 25 it installs 
>>>>>>>> the boot feature asynchronously so the management bundle isn't 
>>>>>>>> installed by the time these 3 bundles need it.
>>>>>>>> I'm not 100% sure but I think this problem still occurs if I make the 
>>>>>>>> feature service install the boot features synchronously.  I'm 
>>>>>>>> surprised but can't debug through it tonight.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One possible fix might be to move more of this into boot features so 
>>>>>>>> there are no dependencies from startup.properties-started-bundles on 
>>>>>>>> boot feature bundles.  This is a pretty big change to the structure of 
>>>>>>>> the minimal server.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also the boot features don't appear to be started by default unless I 
>>>>>>>> put start='true' into each bundle.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>>>> david jencks
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Apr 17, 2011, at 12:23 PM, David Jencks wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Guillaume,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think you are suggesting:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. combine local-repo and system under a suitable name such as system 
>>>>>>>>> or repository.  I'll use system for now.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2. have as little as possible in startup.properties.  For instance 
>>>>>>>>> the startup.properties for minimal and full servers should be the same
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 3. everything else in the basic minimal and full servers should be 
>>>>>>>>> started through bootFeatures.  We want to ensure that all the 
>>>>>>>>> required bundles are in the (single) repo.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 4. generally to create a custom server you'll add (or maybe also 
>>>>>>>>> remove) more bootFeatures and make sure the bundles are installed 
>>>>>>>>> into the repo.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This seems entirely reasonable to me.  The only quibble I can think 
>>>>>>>>> of at the moment is that if everything is in startup.properties you 
>>>>>>>>> can look at one file and see everything that will be started in one 
>>>>>>>>> place.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure how it works right now, but with  this approach I think 
>>>>>>>>> we'll want to make sure that when the features service starts it 
>>>>>>>>> installs all the boot feature bundles immediately so the framework 
>>>>>>>>> can use the start level specified in the features and the order 
>>>>>>>>> listed in bootFeatures won't matter.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One situation this approach won't work for is if you need some 
>>>>>>>>> bundles started before  the feature service itself.  For instance if 
>>>>>>>>> you want jaxb 2.2 used everywhere you'd need to install the jaxb 2.2 
>>>>>>>>> system with a lower start level than the feature service.  So some 
>>>>>>>>> custom servers may need to alter the startup.properties compared to 
>>>>>>>>> the minimal server.  While in this case I expect the jaxb 2.2 feature 
>>>>>>>>> I'll need will be in its own feature repo so it can be handled by 
>>>>>>>>> just listing it as a compile scope dependency, so its bundles will 
>>>>>>>>> get added to startup.properties, this kind of situation indicates to 
>>>>>>>>> me that startupFeatures can still be useful.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'll see if I run into any problems switching the new-style 
>>>>>>>>> assemblies to this approach.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> thanks!
>>>>>>>>> david jencks
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Apr 17, 2011, at 12:00 PM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Note that I've recently enhanced the startup mecahnism to not 
>>>>>>>>>> *always*
>>>>>>>>>> try to install the bundles listed in the startup.properties.
>>>>>>>>>> Previously, they were always reinstalled at startup time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> First, I don't really see the need for local-repo and system.   I
>>>>>>>>>> think we should just merge them.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There's really no need for bootFeatures + startupFeatures.  I think 
>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>> should only have one mechanism.    The original idea was that the 
>>>>>>>>>> core
>>>>>>>>>> bundles are started with the startup.properties and everthing else
>>>>>>>>>> installed using features, mostly through bootFeatures.   Now that we
>>>>>>>>>> have a better maven plugin, the plugin is able to do both, but this 
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> a bit confusing.   Note that there is some differences though:
>>>>>>>>>> * bundles listed startup.properties have to be in the system repo as
>>>>>>>>>> the real mvn url handlers can't be used
>>>>>>>>>> * manually editing the statup.properties is much more tedious than
>>>>>>>>>> changing the bootFeatures imho
>>>>>>>>>> * you can't put bundles using wrap url handler in the 
>>>>>>>>>> startup.properties
>>>>>>>>>> The third point is specially problematic I think.  One possible use
>>>>>>>>>> case that isn't really addressed yet is the ability to create a
>>>>>>>>>> configuration where some features depend on url handlers that are
>>>>>>>>>> provisioned by other features.   Or, said another way, a feature can
>>>>>>>>>> only be *installed* if a dependent feature is *started*.   I think
>>>>>>>>>> moving things back in the startup.properties will make such
>>>>>>>>>> dependencies even harder to manage.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think I would have rathe gone the opposite direction and remove as
>>>>>>>>>> much as possible from the startup.properties to use the bootfeatures
>>>>>>>>>> instead, but it may be just me.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just to understand the goal, what kind of benefit do you see by
>>>>>>>>>> listing all bundles in the startup.properties ?  I suppose we could
>>>>>>>>>> get rid of the features service at runtime then, but apart from that,
>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure to see.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 09:41, David Jencks<[email protected]>  
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Well, I think it may promote confusion, but there are now 3 options 
>>>>>>>>>>> for features in features repositories of maven runtime scope:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> startupFeatures.  The bundles in these features will get installed 
>>>>>>>>>>> into system and listed in startup.properties
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> bootFeatures: The bundles in these features will get installed into 
>>>>>>>>>>> local-repo and the feature names added to  bootFeatures in the 
>>>>>>>>>>> features cfg file
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> installedFeatures: The bundles in these features will get installed 
>>>>>>>>>>> into local-repo.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For instance,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>             <configuration>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 <startupFeatures>
>>>>>>>>>>>                     <feature>ssh</feature>
>>>>>>>>>>>                     <feature>config</feature>
>>>>>>>>>>>                     <feature>management</feature>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 </startupFeatures>
>>>>>>>>>>>             </configuration>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Note that except for startupFeatures the bundles are installed into 
>>>>>>>>>>> local-repo.  I think system should only have bundles started from 
>>>>>>>>>>> startup.properties in it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>>>>>>> david jencks
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 16, 2011, at 12:50 PM, Johan Edstrom wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For me it'd be the same logic as not "starting" everything from 
>>>>>>>>>>>> tomcats endorsed lib and
>>>>>>>>>>>> just deploying WAR file, perhaps a little convoluted comparison, 
>>>>>>>>>>>> but the features additions, adding
>>>>>>>>>>>> things and keeping "application" vs. features does make it simpler 
>>>>>>>>>>>> to manage as your features and deployments grow.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 16, 2011, at 1:05 PM, David Jencks wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the same bundles all get started when you start the server, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> what is the difference?  I think you've "designed" the server you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> want by including the bundles and indicating that you want them 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> started at server startup.  How is it different whether the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bundles are started from startup.properties or the feature 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> service looking at boot features?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>> david jencks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 16, 2011, at 11:48 AM, Johan Edstrom wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really think that the startup.properties is for 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> infrastructure, bluperint etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the startup features allows you do "design" your own distro.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 16, 2011, at 12:42 PM, David Jencks wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi JB,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the explanation, I think I've looked at things from 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only the karaf-assembly point of view too long to see anything 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else :-)  The way karaf-assembly works now, all the bundles in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system will be listed in startup.properties and will start 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> automatically.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you are saying:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- if you include a feature in the boot feature list, you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should make sure all the bundles needed are in the server 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and, looking more closely at the add-features-to-repo mojo I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see there's a<features>  configuration element that lets you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specify features to install the bundles for.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm going to add that capability to the karaf-assembly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> packaging.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's another difference of style to resolve.  I've set up 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the karaf-assembly packaging so that whenever it installs a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> featue, it adds the feature's bundles to startup.properties at 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the appropriate start level.  For "boot" features this means 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you don't need to list them in the features service 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> configuration "boot features" since they will be started via 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the startup.properties.  On the other hand you can't uninstall 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this feature so easily.  Is this an important difference? Do I 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to make a way to install a feature's bundles but not add 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the bundles to startup.properties?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> david jencks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 16, 2011, at 12:12 AM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi David,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure to follow you. bootFeatures property defines 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which features are started at Karaf bootstrap time. It allows 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> user to start a fresh Karaf instance with a set of Karaf 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> features loaded and installed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For instance, in ServiceMix, we have:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - nmr feature as boot feature and we ship all required jar 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (using features-add-to-repo goal) in the system OBR
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - camel-nmr, cxf-nmr, etc are part of the NMR features but not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the boot features set. As we consider this kind of features 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as optional, we don't ship the features jar in the system OBR
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JB
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 04/16/2011 08:32 AM, David Jencks wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am wondering why we have boot features in trunk.  In 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> particular I think there is an inconsistency around the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> management feature which is in the minimal boot feature list 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and whose jars are in the minimal server assembly.  On the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other hand the ssh full boot feature doesn't have all its 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jars in the full server.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If a boot feature doesn't already have all its jars in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> server, won't this require internet access on initial startup?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If all the jars for a boot feature are already installed in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the server, why call it a boot feature, why not just start it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the rest of the jars?  For this question I may be biased 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by looking at the packaging based assemblies where the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> startup.properties is constructed from the features that are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> installed into the server, so it is at least as east to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> configure the assembly to just include the jars as to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> configure a boot feature.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am I missing something?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> david jencks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> Guillaume Nodet
>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> Open Source SOA
>>>>>>>>>> http://fusesource.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Connect at CamelOne May 24-26
>>>>>>>>>> The Open Source Integration Conference
>>>>>>>>>> http://camelone.com/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Christian Schneider
>>>>> CXF and Camel Architect
>>>>> SOPERA - The Application Integration Division of Talend
>>>>> http://www.talend.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
>

Reply via email to