Hi Alex, this is the first time I see this plan in detail. Apologies, but I am unable to find any [PROPOSAL] related to this on the mailing list. Could you please point me in the right direction?
In any case, I am not asking to revisit this move. I am for it, it is a good move. My goal is to retain the features we have for quite some time in kogito-* stream. Looks like it means extra work, so I want to know about it now, rather than after we do the release. I am not aware of all the little details in the migration plan, so that's why I wanted some input from you, and I got it. Thank you very much! @Tiago summarizes it perfectly, I noticed a problem, raised it so we do not figure it out after merge. +1 to move them to kie-tools, it looks like the only option now to me. If we are able to reintroduce the feature and continue the development there without issues I do not see this as a blocker. The build mechanism you built in kie-tools is very powerful so we should be able to work on the images in kie-tools; Imho without much problems. Best regards, Dominik On Wed, 6 Mar 2024 at 21:29, ricardo zanini fernandes < [email protected]> wrote: > After a second thought, we need these features from kie-tools. If that's > the solution to move there, let's do it and release this. > > But I'm struggling to find time to wrap up my own tasks, I'll need help, > won't have time atm. > > Cheers! > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 4:49 PM ricardo zanini fernandes < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Ok, so remove all the dependencies from the kie-tools in the images and > we > > figure out later how to include this features post-release. > > > > -1 to add to kie-tools. The repo is complex enough now. > > > > Cheers! > > > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 3:02 PM Eder Ignatowicz <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> Tiago, thanks for the detailed explanation. > >> > >> As the kn-plugin workflow will always depend on the dev mode image and > >> eventually images will depend on tools artifacts, I would vote to move > the > >> images for kie tools, remove the circular dependency, unblock the 10 > >> release, and later we figure out if there is a better way to deal with > >> that. > >> _____________ > >> Eder Ignatowicz > >> [email protected] > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 2:50 PM Tiago Bento <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > >> > Dominik and Ricardo, > >> > > >> > I understand your concern with removing features from users. Too much > >> > has grown around the circular dependency we had between `kogito-apps` > >> > and `kie-tools`. We're fixing it now, and it is a challenging task. > >> > > >> > Rather than stating the "need" of `kogito-images` depending on > >> > `kie-tools`, let's keep the focus on the end result. IMHO it is > >> > irrelevant on which repo something is hosted, as long as we can do > >> > atomic releases and kick-off our release train with Apache KIE 10. > >> > That means defining a clear topology of repos during an Apache KIE > >> > build, which, by definition, can't contain cycles. > >> > > >> > Now, `kogito-images` either is part of the `drools` and `kogito-*` > >> > streams, or it's not. > >> > > >> > This PR [1] > >> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-kogito-images/pull/1734 > >> > introduces a cycle, even without the changes proposed by me on the > >> > first email of this thread, so merging this PR would be introducing a > >> > blocker for the Apache KIE 10 release (and for future releases too). > >> > > >> > If we really wanted to have `kogito-images` depending on `kie-tools`, > >> > though, we would need to: > >> > > >> > 1. Make sure `kie-tools` doesn't depend on `kogito-images`; > >> > 2. Create a third development stream, just for `kogito-images`, > >> > leaving a buffer for `kogito-images` to be updated with the latest > >> > `kie-tools` version during a release. Analogous to what we do with > >> > `kie-tools` and the `drools` and `kogito-*` stream; > >> > 3. Create a mechanism to do timestamped SNAPSHOT releases of > >> > `kie-tools`, analogous to what we have on the `drools` and `kogito-*` > >> > streams now. > >> > > >> > This, IMHO, introduces a lot more complexity to our already convoluted > >> > release process, so I wouldn't go on that route. > >> > > >> > With all that said, and to be clear regarding the topology of the > >> > repository, to successfully build and release Apache KIE 10, we need > >> > to take all 22 repositories [1] we have in Apache right now, and sort > >> > them in a way that we can build them one by one, only once, without > >> > referencing older versions of any 1st-party > >> > package/module/image/artifact. > >> > > >> > We can't think about our repos in the same way we used to. KIE Tools > >> > won't have a release published before nor after a Drools or Kogito > >> > Runtimes release. Everything will be released at the same time. That's > >> > the mindset shift we all need to get used to if we want to do atomic > >> > releases of Apache KIE. > >> > > >> > I hope it is clearer now why we can't have `kogito-images` depending > >> > on `kie-tools` if `kogito-images` continues to be part of the `drools` > >> > and `kogito-*` development streams. > >> > > >> > The way I see it, Dominik came to this mail thread with an important > >> > and valid concern, which now we need to solve together, as a > >> > community. > >> > > >> > I'll keep my suggestions of either moving the image from > >> > `kogito-images` to `kie-tools`, or removing the dependency of SWF > >> > Quarkus Dev UI from it. Of course, the PR [1] can't be merged, as it > >> > will introduce a dependency cycle, so I'm -1'ing that PR too, given > >> > the blocker it will introduce to the Apache KIE 10 release. > >> > > >> > Is this image being used anywhere else? Or is `kn-plugin-workflow` the > >> > only place using it? Why does it need to stay at `kogito-images` and > >> > can't go to `kie-tools`? Same questions for the image being introduced > >> > by [1]. > >> > > >> > Let me know if I'm missing something, but I feel like our best course > >> > of action now would be moving the images to `kie-tools`. > >> > > >> > Regards, > >> > > >> > Tiago Bento > >> > > >> > > >> > [1] > >> > > >> > https://github.com/orgs/apache/repositories?language=&q=incubator-kie&sort=&type=all > >> > > >> > > >> > On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 9:59 AM Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > > > >> > > Ricardo, > >> > > > >> > > Here's a better description [1] of the dependency that KIE Tools has > >> > > with the images. If we have kogito images moved to after KIE Tools, > I > >> > > think we'd create a new circular dependency. > >> > > > >> > > [1] - > >> > > >> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/821#issuecomment-1896206199 > >> > > > >> > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 9:43 AM ricardo zanini fernandes > >> > > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Alex, > >> > > > > >> > > > I'm not aware of any dependencies in KIE Tools for images. > >> > > > > >> > > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 9:44 AM Alex Porcelli <[email protected] > > > >> > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > > Ricardo, > >> > > > > > >> > > > > IIRC, there’s a dependency in KIE Tools for serverless workflow > >> with > >> > > > > images… if this is correct, your proposal will introduce a new > >> > circular > >> > > > > dependency. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 7:39 AM ricardo zanini fernandes < > >> > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Hi! > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > A strong -1 from my side moving the images to kie-tools. We > can > >> > release > >> > > > > the > >> > > > > > images after a kie-tools release or patch the images with a > new > >> > kie-tools > >> > > > > > release if that comes out. It's ok to depend on it, I just > need > >> > help to > >> > > > > > setup the pipelines and CI. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > So, when releasing SonatFlow images, we can grab the latest > >> > available > >> > > > > > kie-tools version, pack it and ship it. If a new release comes > >> up > >> > and we > >> > > > > > need the fix, we can of course do a patch release. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > We just need to automate the process. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Cheers! > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 9:33 AM Alex Porcelli < > >> [email protected]> > >> > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Dominik, > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > The plans and course of action for removing the circular > >> > dependency has > >> > > > > > > been exhaustively discussed in the mailing list and Zulip > >> > channel among > >> > > > > > > community and key stakeholders, I don’t think we have room > to > >> > revisit > >> > > > > the > >> > > > > > > decision that has been already agreed. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > With that being said, I don’t think the current plans > removes > >> any > >> > > > > > > functionality, we are just moving things from one repository > >> to > >> > > > > another. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 2:19 AM Dominik Hanak < > >> > [email protected]> > >> > > > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Hi Tiago, > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > that is a problem, we are removing an important > >> functionality > >> > for our > >> > > > > > SWF > >> > > > > > > > users, imho it is a killer feature in this case. > >> > > > > > > > I am against it, there needs to be a solution where we can > >> > depend on > >> > > > > > > > kie-tools with kie-kogito-images. > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Another thing that is currently open as a PR [2] that > makes > >> > images > >> > > > > > depend > >> > > > > > > > on kie-tools. Here we are following > >> > > > > > > > the approach you started in kiegroup and we were not aware > >> of > >> > any > >> > > > > > > changes, > >> > > > > > > > now with the unexpected and sudden changes it is > irrelevant? > >> > > > > > > > Do you have a proposal on how to achieve what we have in > [2] > >> > after > >> > > > > the > >> > > > > > > > circular dependency issue is fixed according to the > proposal > >> > > > > > annoucement? > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Dominik > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > [2] > >> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-kogito-images/pull/1734 > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On Wed, 6 Mar 2024 at 02:10, Tiago Bento < > >> > > > > > [email protected]> > >> > > > > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Hi Dominik, > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > That is indeed an oversight on our part. Thanks for > >> pointing > >> > that > >> > > > > > out. > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, given the two development streams > (`drools` > >> > and > >> > > > > > > > > `kogito-*`, and `kie-tools`), we can't have > >> `kogito-images` > >> > > > > depending > >> > > > > > > > > on packages that will start being hosted on `kie-tools`, > >> > since > >> > > > > > > > > `kogito-images` is part of the `drools` and `kogito-*` > >> > development > >> > > > > > > > > stream, which is upstream from `kie-tools`' perspective. > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Since all Dev UI packages are moving to `kie-tools`, > >> images > >> > on > >> > > > > > > > > `kogito-images` can't depend on them. > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > I'm not familiar with the structure of `kogito-images`, > >> nor > >> > the > >> > > > > > > > > purpose of this image that uses SWF's Quarkus Dev UI, > but > >> > following > >> > > > > > > > > the same reasoning we did for > `kogito-management-console` > >> and > >> > > > > > > > > `kogito-task-console`, my suggestion would be moving > this > >> > image to > >> > > > > > > > > `kie-tools`. Another option I can see is simply removing > >> the > >> > > > > Quarkus > >> > > > > > > > > Dev UI dependency on this image. > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > I'd wait for other opinions, though, as I'm not the best > >> > person to > >> > > > > > > > > answer SWF-related questions. > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Regards, > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Tiago Bento > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 5, 2024 at 9:31 AM Dominik Hanak < > >> > > > > [email protected]> > >> > > > > > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Hi Tiago, > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Thanks for moving this forward. > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > I have one thing to highlight with > >> > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-kogito-images > >> > > > > > > > > > I noticed [1], where the swf devui is being used in an > >> > image. > >> > > > > Imho > >> > > > > > > that > >> > > > > > > > > > would require adjustments to the nightly pipelines & > >> > release > >> > > > > > process. > >> > > > > > > > > > Would it be possible to add tasks to the plan that > >> ensure > >> > > > > required > >> > > > > > > > > > adjustments to our CI once the migration is done? > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Dominik > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > [1] > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-kogito-images/blob/ce62b9d86c2ea0385ab85c3ef5339afe5ecdea72/modules/kogito-swf/devmode/build-config/module.yaml#L30 > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 1 Mar 2024 at 05:54, Tiago Bento < > >> > [email protected]> > >> > > > > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Following up on the status of this effort. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > I know I'm a bit late on the email, but it paid off, > >> as > >> > we just > >> > > > > > had > >> > > > > > > > > > > our first green build [1] of KIE Tools with Java 17, > >> > Quarkus > >> > > > > > 3.2.9, > >> > > > > > > > > > > Maven 3.9.6 and Kogito 999-20240218-SNAPSHOT. We > >> ended up > >> > > > > > deciding > >> > > > > > > to > >> > > > > > > > > > > do items 1. and 2. together after all, but we > couldn't > >> > use the > >> > > > > > > latest > >> > > > > > > > > > > timestamped SNAPSHOT due to > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-25546, > >> which > >> > > > > > prevented > >> > > > > > > > the > >> > > > > > > > > > > publication of the timestamped SNAPSHOT to succeed. > >> > That's why > >> > > > > we > >> > > > > > > > > > > picked 20240218, not 20240225. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > We will proceed with some manual checks now to > confirm > >> > that > >> > > > > > > > everything > >> > > > > > > > > > > is working properly, and I hope on the next status > >> > update we > >> > > > > will > >> > > > > > > > have > >> > > > > > > > > > > the big blocker removed and that we have already > made > >> > some > >> > > > > > progress > >> > > > > > > > on > >> > > > > > > > > > > items other than 1. and 2.. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > It's been great seeing everyone working together to > >> move > >> > this > >> > > > > > > forward > >> > > > > > > > > > > as fast as possible. Thanks a lot Eder, Thiago, > >> Rodrigo, > >> > Alex, > >> > > > > > > > > > > Fabrizio, Paulo, and Yeser! > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > [1] > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-tools/actions/runs/8105498131/job/22153897965 > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 5:59 AM Francisco Javier > >> Tirado > >> > Sarti > >> > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Tiago, > >> > > > > > > > > > > > It was a nice morning reading ;) Thanks for all > the > >> > time > >> > > > > > invested > >> > > > > > > > on > >> > > > > > > > > such > >> > > > > > > > > > > > detailed writing. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > @Ricardo Zanini <[email protected]> @Walter > >> Medvedeo > >> > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> I guess dev ui can > be > >> > removed > >> > > > > > from > >> > > > > > > > > current > >> > > > > > > > > > > > examples, at least from the ones I'm familiar > with, > >> > since > >> > > > > their > >> > > > > > > > > README > >> > > > > > > > > > > > files do not really require any graphical tool. > But > >> to > >> > be > >> > > > > > honest, > >> > > > > > > > > since I > >> > > > > > > > > > > > have focused my work on SWF simple showcase > >> examples, > >> > I'm > >> > > > > not > >> > > > > > > 100% > >> > > > > > > > > sure > >> > > > > > > > > > > > that's the same case for more elaborate ones, can > >> you > >> > please > >> > > > > > > check > >> > > > > > > > > that > >> > > > > > > > > > > it > >> > > > > > > > > > > > is fine to remove dev ui? If this is not the case, > >> > maybe > >> > > > > those > >> > > > > > > > > examples > >> > > > > > > > > > > can > >> > > > > > > > > > > > be moved to the tools repository (points 9 and 10 > of > >> > Tiago's > >> > > > > > > email) > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 2:29 AM Tiago Bento < > >> > > > > > > [email protected] > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > DISCLAIMER: this is a long email. Feel free to > >> jump > >> > to the > >> > > > > > > bottom > >> > > > > > > > > for > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > the concrete task list. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > This email aims to explain the issue and lay out > >> the > >> > > > > efforts > >> > > > > > > that > >> > > > > > > > > are > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > in place to fix it. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Before we start digging into the problem, we > need > >> to > >> > > > > > > understand a > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > little bit of the history of the KIE community > and > >> > the > >> > > > > Kogito > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > initiative, at least from the part I started > >> > contributing > >> > > > > to > >> > > > > > it > >> > > > > > > > > anyway > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > :) > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Back in Business Central days, we had a single > >> > stream of > >> > > > > > > > > development. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > We had robust CI jobs that would build the > entire > >> > stack, > >> > > > > from > >> > > > > > > > > `drools` > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > to `kie-wb-distributions`. When Kogito came > about, > >> > there > >> > > > > was > >> > > > > > a > >> > > > > > > > > fission > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > in our pipelines. Kogito started to release > >> > independently > >> > > > > > from > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > everything else, and because of the organic way > >> > things > >> > > > > > started > >> > > > > > > to > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > organize themselves, the Kogito Tooling > initiative > >> > needed > >> > > > > to > >> > > > > > > have > >> > > > > > > > > its > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > own release cycle as well. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Up until we started the migration to Apache, > >> Business > >> > > > > Central > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > continued on its `7.x` stream, Kogito was at > `1.x` > >> > stream, > >> > > > > > and > >> > > > > > > > > Kogito > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Tooling (which was already called KIE Tools) was > >> > still on > >> > > > > > > `0.x`. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Drools started its own release stream as well, > >> with > >> > `8.x`, > >> > > > > > and > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > OptaPlanner I believe had jumped to `9.x` > already. > >> > This > >> > > > > > > > > fragmentation > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > had technical implications, which we are trying > to > >> > overcome > >> > > > > > > right > >> > > > > > > > > now > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > with Apache KIE 10. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > The Apache KIE 10 release is aimed to be an > atomic > >> > release, > >> > > > > > > where > >> > > > > > > > > the > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > entire Apache KIE community follows a single > >> release > >> > > > > stream. > >> > > > > > > This > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > means we need to make sure our code base is in > >> sync, > >> > from > >> > > > > > > > `drools` > >> > > > > > > > > to > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > `kie-tools`. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > This whole conversation of course doesn't come > >> > without a > >> > > > > > > > > background of > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > CI pipelines, organizational perspectives of > what > >> > Apache > >> > > > > KIE > >> > > > > > > is, > >> > > > > > > > > and > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > even poly- vs. mono-repo discussions. This is > not > >> > the focus > >> > > > > > of > >> > > > > > > > this > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > issue, and I believe with time we'll converge > into > >> > > > > something > >> > > > > > > > > everyone > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > is comfortable with and that ultimately serves > our > >> > users > >> > > > > > well. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Due to the lack of unification and flexibility > >> while > >> > > > > > > > bootstrapping > >> > > > > > > > > new > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > efforts, KIE Tools had to come up with a way to > >> > depend on > >> > > > > the > >> > > > > > > new > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > stuff (i.e. Kogito) without sacrificing its own > >> > integrity > >> > > > > and > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > stability. KIE Tools, as many of you know, > evolved > >> > to be a > >> > > > > > > > polyglot > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > monorepo, hosting Java, JavaScript/TypeScript, > Go > >> and > >> > > > > Docker > >> > > > > > > > > images. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > There's a multitude of technologies at play on > KIE > >> > Tools, > >> > > > > > which > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ultimately gives our users KIE Sandbox, VS Code > >> and > >> > Chrome > >> > > > > > > > > Extensions, > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > and Standalone Editors that can be used as > regular > >> > > > > libraries > >> > > > > > on > >> > > > > > > > web > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > applications. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > The technical solution we found on `kie-tools` > was > >> > > > > depending > >> > > > > > on > >> > > > > > > > > Kogito > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > as if it were a 3rd party dependency. We have a > >> > single, > >> > > > > fixed > >> > > > > > > > > version > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > of it and we manually upgrade it to the latest > one > >> > > > > available > >> > > > > > > when > >> > > > > > > > > we > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > need to. This has worked amazingly well, > allowing > >> us > >> > to own > >> > > > > > the > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > codebase and avoid random breaks coming from > >> SNAPSHOT > >> > > > > > > artifacts. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > This allowed the `drools` and `kogito-*` > >> > repositories to > >> > > > > > evolve > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > independently of `kie-tools`. This also made > >> > `kie-tools` > >> > > > > > > > > responsible > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > for adapting itself to changes coming from > >> `drools` > >> > and > >> > > > > > > > `kogito-*`. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Luckily, we didn't have many incompatibilities, > >> but > >> > right > >> > > > > now > >> > > > > > > we > >> > > > > > > > > have > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > an important one, that we'll discuss below. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Note that at this point, and for this issue in > >> > particular, > >> > > > > it > >> > > > > > > is > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > unimportant to discuss why things were done the > >> way > >> > they > >> > > > > > were, > >> > > > > > > or > >> > > > > > > > > what > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > we should've done instead. I'm laying out the > >> facts > >> > so that > >> > > > > > we > >> > > > > > > > can > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > understand how we're moving forward now. Of > >> course, > >> > I would > >> > > > > > > > > personally > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > love to debate this on a separate thread :) > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the most impactful features of KIE > Sandbox > >> is > >> > the > >> > > > > DMN > >> > > > > > > > > Runner. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > It allows people to rapidly interact with their > >> > Decisions > >> > > > > as > >> > > > > > > they > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > author them, and this was all made possible > >> because > >> > of the > >> > > > > > JIT > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Executor (hosted at `kogito-apps`). KIE Sandbox > >> also > >> > > > > started > >> > > > > > to > >> > > > > > > > > allow > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > users to deploy their Decisions to OpenShift, > then > >> > later to > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kubernetes, and now recently we allow users to > >> deploy > >> > > > > > anything > >> > > > > > > to > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > OpenShift and Kubernetes, with a very high level > >> of > >> > > > > > > > customization. > >> > > > > > > > > All > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > these features depend on `kogito-*`, Quarkus, > and > >> > all the > >> > > > > > > things > >> > > > > > > > > that > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > come with them. Including the Java version. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Logically, `kie-tools` depends on `drools` and > >> > `kogito-*`, > >> > > > > as > >> > > > > > > > > `drools` > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > and `kogito-*` can (and do!) exist and function > >> > without > >> > > > > > Tools, > >> > > > > > > > but > >> > > > > > > > > not > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > the other way around. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > As `kie-tools` started growing, maturing, and > >> > releasing > >> > > > > some > >> > > > > > > > > pieces of > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > technology that were useful to other domains > (i.e. > >> > > > > > Multiplying > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Architecture), it became a dependency for other > >> > projects. > >> > > > > > Users > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > started depending on our Standalone Editors, but > >> > also on > >> > > > > the > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Multiplying Architecture packages. One good > >> example > >> > is > >> > > > > Kaoto, > >> > > > > > > > which > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > released a VS Code extension aligned with our > >> > architecture. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > The capability of encapsulating web components > in > >> any > >> > > > > > > technology > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > behind a well defined, statically typed API was > >> > really > >> > > > > > > appealing, > >> > > > > > > > > and > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > when the Kogito initiative started to design > their > >> > Runtime > >> > > > > > > Tools > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > (i.e., Quarkus Dev UIs, Management Console, and > >> Task > >> > > > > Inbox), > >> > > > > > > > using > >> > > > > > > > > the > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Multiplying Architecture was the way to go. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > That's when the circular dependency started. We > >> had > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > `kogito-apps/ui-packages` depending on > >> `kie-tools`. > >> > Note > >> > > > > that > >> > > > > > > it > >> > > > > > > > > was > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > also logical for these packages to be part of > the > >> > > > > `kogito-*` > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > repositories and release stream. Users upgrading > >> to > >> > a new > >> > > > > > > version > >> > > > > > > > > of > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kogito would also need to have their Task Inbox, > >> > Management > >> > > > > > > > > Console, > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > and Quarkus Dev UIs aligned with the new version > >> of > >> > Kogito. > >> > > > > > Not > >> > > > > > > > to > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > mention Job Service, Data Index etc. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > For many months (or years!), this was not an > >> issue, > >> > as the > >> > > > > > > > > Multiplying > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Architecture packages were very stable and very > >> > rarely were > >> > > > > > > > > modified. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > The last big change we had was 3 years ago, with > >> the > >> > > > > > > introduction > >> > > > > > > > > of > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Shared Values [1], which did not impact the > >> > fire-and-forget > >> > > > > > and > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Promise-based mechanisms we already had in > place. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Although we were aware of this circular > dependency > >> > from the > >> > > > > > > > > beginning, > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > it was not that big of a deal for `kogito-apps` > to > >> > depend > >> > > > > on > >> > > > > > an > >> > > > > > > > > older, > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > dephased version of `kie-tools`. We didn't have > >> > plans of > >> > > > > > > unifying > >> > > > > > > > > the > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > streams anyway, and it was the best solution for > >> our > >> > users > >> > > > > to > >> > > > > > > > have > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > their Runtime Tools packages released together > >> with > >> > the > >> > > > > > Kogito > >> > > > > > > > > stream. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > That of course changed after the migration to > >> Apache. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > If you reached this point, thank you for your > >> > interest in a > >> > > > > > > > little > >> > > > > > > > > bit > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > of the history of KIE, and I hope you can now > >> > understand > >> > > > > why > >> > > > > > > > things > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > are the way they are. Let's talk about what > >> changed > >> > and > >> > > > > what > >> > > > > > we > >> > > > > > > > are > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > doing to adapt to the new requirements. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hinting a little bit to what I mentioned above, > >> this > >> > > > > > discussion > >> > > > > > > > is > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > very intertwined with the CI pipelines and > >> > > > > > versioning/releasing > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > strategies subjects, as we are essentially > >> > discussing code > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > organization, coupling/decoupling and > granularity > >> of > >> > stuff, > >> > > > > > and > >> > > > > > > > to > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > make things easier at least for a while, > `drools` > >> and > >> > > > > > > `kogito-*` > >> > > > > > > > > will > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > continue being a separate stream from > `kie-tools`. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > `drools` and `kogito-*` will continue being able > >> to > >> > evolve > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > independently of `kie-tools`, and `kie-tools` > will > >> > continue > >> > > > > > > > > adapting > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > itself to whatever changes on `drools` and > >> > `kogito-*`. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > At the same time, Apache KIE 10 (and the next > >> > releases > >> > > > > too!) > >> > > > > > > will > >> > > > > > > > > be > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > atomic. And for our users, a single release > >> stream. > >> > > > > > `drools@10 > >> > > > > > > ` > >> > > > > > > > > and > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > `kogito-*@10` will be used on `kie-tools@10`. > We > >> > started > >> > > > > > this > >> > > > > > > > > effort a > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > while ago, and although we should've been more > >> open > >> > about > >> > > > > it > >> > > > > > > from > >> > > > > > > > > the > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > beginning, we are also learning how to properly > >> > communicate > >> > > > > > > > inside > >> > > > > > > > > the > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Apache structure. Better late than never :) > Thanks > >> > for the > >> > > > > > tip > >> > > > > > > > > Tibor! > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's how we'll do it: > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. A couple of weeks ago, one of our newest > >> > committers. > >> > > > > > Rodrigo > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Antunes, created automated jobs to weekly > publish > >> a > >> > > > > > timestamped > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > SNAPSHOT version of `drools` and `kogito-*`. > This > >> > will > >> > > > > allow > >> > > > > > us > >> > > > > > > > to > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > have a persistent, immutable version to point to > >> on > >> > > > > > > `kie-tools`, > >> > > > > > > > > even > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > without having a full release. Timestamped > >> > SNAPSHOTs, as > >> > > > > > we're > >> > > > > > > > > calling > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > them, are a little bit different than normal > Maven > >> > > > > SNAPSHOTs, > >> > > > > > > as > >> > > > > > > > > there > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > is no `updatePolicy`, so as time passes, the > >> > downloaded > >> > > > > > > artifacts > >> > > > > > > > > do > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > not change. This allows `kie-tools` to be stable > >> and > >> > > > > > > incorporate > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > changes done to `drools` and `kogito-*` at its > own > >> > pace. We > >> > > > > > > also > >> > > > > > > > > moved > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > the publication of > `@kie-tools/jitexecutor-native` > >> > to this > >> > > > > > new > >> > > > > > > > > job, so > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > we won't have to maintain it on the `kie-tools` > >> side > >> > > > > anymore. > >> > > > > > > > > Thanks > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Rodrigo! > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. When we define the code freeze prior to > >> releasing > >> > Apache > >> > > > > > > KIE, > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > `drools` and `kogito-*` will need to be frozen a > >> > little bit > >> > > > > > > > earlier > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > than `kie-tools`, leaving a buffer for > `kie-tools` > >> > to start > >> > > > > > > > > pointing > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > to the latest timestamped SNAPSHOT and adapting > >> > itself to > >> > > > > the > >> > > > > > > > > changes. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > My initial thoughts are around 2 weeks, but with > >> > constant > >> > > > > > > updates > >> > > > > > > > > and > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > proper alignment between the two streams, I see > >> this > >> > time > >> > > > > > > > reducing > >> > > > > > > > > to > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > a couple of days for upcoming releases. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. After `kie-tools` is fully functional > pointing > >> to > >> > the > >> > > > > > latest > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > timestamped SNAPSHOT of `drools` and `kogito-*`, > >> we > >> > can now > >> > > > > > > start > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > preparing for the actual release. We will cut > new > >> > branches > >> > > > > > for > >> > > > > > > > the > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > next version (i.e. 10.0.0) and update all > >> > configuration > >> > > > > files > >> > > > > > > > that > >> > > > > > > > > we > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > have to. This will be done on `drools`, > >> `kogito-*`, > >> > and > >> > > > > > > > > `kie-tools`. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Every module/package will declare the same > >> version, > >> > and > >> > > > > will > >> > > > > > > > > depend on > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > the upstream modules/packages with the same > >> version > >> > as > >> > > > > well. > >> > > > > > We > >> > > > > > > > can > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > proceed with this staging phase as normal. > Running > >> > > > > > > > automated/manual > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > tests and eventually signing off that everything > >> is > >> > good to > >> > > > > > go. > >> > > > > > > > > (I'm > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > not 100% on the timeline for the Apache release, > >> but > >> > with > >> > > > > > this > >> > > > > > > > > process > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > we can guarantee that we will vote on branches > >> that > >> > won't > >> > > > > > > change > >> > > > > > > > > when > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > we decide to release. It will be a matter of > >> pushing > >> > tags > >> > > > > > > > pointing > >> > > > > > > > > to > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > these release branches). > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > With the release process defined, we can now > >> discuss > >> > the > >> > > > > > exact > >> > > > > > > > > actions > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > we're taking to remove the circular dependency > we > >> > have > >> > > > > > between > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > `kie-tools` and `kogito-apps`. All of which will > >> > need to be > >> > > > > > > > > addressed > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > prior to starting the release process. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. (Fabrizio - IN PROGRESS) Make sure > `kie-tools` > >> is > >> > on > >> > > > > Java > >> > > > > > > 17, > >> > > > > > > > > Maven > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > 3.9.6, and Quarkus 3. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ( > >> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/960 > >> > > > > ) > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > There's a complication here, since we still > >> have > >> > three > >> > > > > > big > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > packages (Serverless Workflow Diagram Editor, > >> BPMN, > >> > DMN, > >> > > > > and > >> > > > > > > > SceSim > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Editors, and DashBuilder) on `kie-tools` that > need > >> > GWT, and > >> > > > > > as > >> > > > > > > > you > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > know, GWT together with Java upgrades usually > >> > require some > >> > > > > > > work. > >> > > > > > > > > We're > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > on GWT 2.10, which should already support Java > 17, > >> > but > >> > > > > we'll > >> > > > > > > know > >> > > > > > > > > more > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > once we try it. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. (Fabrizio - NOT YET STARTED) Make sure > >> > `kie-tools` is > >> > > > > > using > >> > > > > > > > the > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > latest timestamped SNAPSHOT from `kogito-*`. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ( > >> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/965 > >> > > > > ) > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > We have them built and published every > Sunday > >> > EOD, so > >> > > > > on > >> > > > > > > > Monday > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > (Feb 25th, 2024) we'll have a brand new one to > >> start > >> > > > > working > >> > > > > > > > with. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. (Thiago - IN PROGRESS) Move > >> > `kogito-apps/ui-packages` to > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > `kie-tools`. ( > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/833) > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > We started a couple of weeks ago, and we > >> should > >> > be ~80% > >> > > > > > > done > >> > > > > > > > > with > >> > > > > > > > > > > it > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > by now. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. (Fabrizio - PR SENT, but blocked by 1. and > 2.) > >> > Move the > >> > > > > > SWF > >> > > > > > > > > Quarkus > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dev UI package from `kogito-apps` to > `kie-tools`. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ( > >> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-tools/pull/2167) > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > This can only be done after 1. and 2. are > >> > merged, since > >> > > > > > > this > >> > > > > > > > > move > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > will require `kie-tools` to be ready to build > >> > packages with > >> > > > > > > Java > >> > > > > > > > > 17, > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Maven 3.9.6, and Quarkus 3. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > 5. (Thiago - NOT YET STARTED) Move the BPMN > >> Quarkus > >> > Dev UI > >> > > > > > > > package > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > from `kogito-apps` to `kie-tools`. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ( > >> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/966 > >> > > > > ) > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > We'll follow the lead of Fabrizio's PR from > 4. > >> > That's > >> > > > > > > > > essentially > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > doing exactly the same thing for the BPMN > Quarkus > >> > Dev UI > >> > > > > > > module. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > 6. (Rodrigo - NOT YET STARTED) Change the > Jenkins > >> > release > >> > > > > > jobs > >> > > > > > > to > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > include publishing both Quarkus Dev UI modules > to > >> > Maven > >> > > > > > central > >> > > > > > > > as > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > part of the Apache release. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ( > >> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/964 > >> > > > > ) > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Should be pretty straight-forward, as we > >> already > >> > have > >> > > > > > > > > experience > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > doing this for other repos. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > 7. (Thiago - NOT YET STARTED) Change the > >> ownership of > >> > > > > > > > > `task-console` > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > and `management-console` images from > >> `kogito-images` > >> > to > >> > > > > > > > > `kie-tools`. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ( > >> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/963 > >> > > > > ) > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > KIE Tools already hosts and publishes > several > >> > images, > >> > > > > and > >> > > > > > > > since > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > the content of those images will now be hosted > at > >> > > > > > `kie-tools`, > >> > > > > > > we > >> > > > > > > > > can > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > only host them there. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > This also means we'll get rid of the two > >> Quarkus > >> > apps > >> > > > > [2] > >> > > > > > > > that > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrap both consoles' static assets. We could be > >> wrong > >> > about > >> > > > > > the > >> > > > > > > > > purpose > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > of those apps, so if anyone has more > information, > >> > please do > >> > > > > > > reach > >> > > > > > > > > out. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise, we'll skip the Quarkusification of > >> those > >> > static > >> > > > > > > assets > >> > > > > > > > > and > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > we'll ship images with `httpd` directly, like we > >> do > >> > for KIE > >> > > > > > > > > Sandbox. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > 8. (Assignee TDB - NOT YET STARTED) Deleting > >> > everything > >> > > > > that > >> > > > > > > was > >> > > > > > > > > moved > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > to `kie-tools` from `kogito-apps`. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ( > >> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/962 > >> > > > > ) > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > That will be the point where we actually get > >> rid > >> > of the > >> > > > > > > > > circular > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > dependency and remove the blocker for the > release. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > 9. (Assignee TDB - NOT YET STARTED) Adapt > >> > `kogito-examples` > >> > > > > > to > >> > > > > > > > all > >> > > > > > > > > the > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > changes we mentioned above. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ( > >> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/961 > >> > > > > ) > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kogito Examples keeps being part of the > >> `drools` > >> > and > >> > > > > > > > `kogito-*` > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > stream, meaning that example modules won't be > able > >> > to use > >> > > > > > > neither > >> > > > > > > > > of > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > the Quarkus Dev UIs, as `kie-tools` is > downstream > >> in > >> > > > > relation > >> > > > > > > to > >> > > > > > > > > the > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > `drools` and `kogito-*` stream. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > The same would be true for Management > Console > >> > and Task > >> > > > > > > > Console > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > images, but for them, we can use the `daily-dev` > >> tag > >> > we > >> > > > > > publish > >> > > > > > > > > daily > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > from `kie-tools@main`. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > 10. (Assignee TDB - NOT YET STARTED) Create some > >> > example > >> > > > > apps > >> > > > > > > > that > >> > > > > > > > > use > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > the Quarkus Dev UIs directly on the `examples` > >> > directory of > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > `kie-tools`. ( > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/959) > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > This is to serve the same purpose of > packages > >> > that did > >> > > > > > that > >> > > > > > > > on > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > `kogito-examples`, but now hosted on > `kie-tools`. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Pheew! That's a lot of things to do, but it is > the > >> > result > >> > > > > of > >> > > > > > > two > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > intense weeks assessing and planning how we > would > >> > address > >> > > > > > this > >> > > > > > > > > issue > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > in a way that the Apache KIE 10 release can be > >> done > >> > in a > >> > > > > way > >> > > > > > > that > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > feels atomic to our users, who are ultimately > the > >> > most > >> > > > > > > important > >> > > > > > > > > part > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > of the community. There's an open EPIC too at > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/967. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > I appreciate it if you reached this point, and > >> hope > >> > you > >> > > > > feel > >> > > > > > > > > welcome > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > to contributing to solving this lengthy and > >> > historical > >> > > > > > problem > >> > > > > > > if > >> > > > > > > > > you > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > feel like doing so. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll personally send updates to this thread > every > >> > week, on > >> > > > > > > > Thursday > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > nights. Do not hesitate to contact me or any of > >> the > >> > people > >> > > > > > > > > involved in > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > this effort if you have questions, or simply > want > >> to > >> > chat > >> > > > > > about > >> > > > > > > > it. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot Alex, Paulo, Fabrizio, Thiago, > >> Rodrigo, > >> > and > >> > > > > > others > >> > > > > > > > > that > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > somehow helped so far. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards, > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Tiago Bento > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > P.S.: You might've noticed we left Trusty out of > >> the > >> > > > > picture > >> > > > > > > for > >> > > > > > > > > now. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thiago is conducting an investigation to > >> understand > >> > what > >> > > > > > would > >> > > > > > > be > >> > > > > > > > > the > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > best course of action for it. As much as we have > >> > plans to > >> > > > > > > revive > >> > > > > > > > > it, > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > right now our focus has to be on getting Apache > >> KIE > >> > 10 out. > >> > > > > > We > >> > > > > > > > can > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > always rely on Git to bring it back in the > future, > >> > if we > >> > > > > > > > ultimately > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > decide that wiping out Trusty is the best > strategy > >> > for this > >> > > > > > > > moment. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] > >> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-tools/pull/691 > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > [2] > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-kogito-apps/tree/main/task-console > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > and > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-kogito-apps/tree/main/management-console > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > >> > [email protected] > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > >> > [email protected] > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > >> [email protected] > >> > > > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > >> [email protected] > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >> > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > [email protected] > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >> > > > >> > > >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > >> > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > >> > > >> > > >> > > >
