Hi Francisco, thanks for clarification! Best Gabriele
Il giorno gio 7 mar 2024 alle ore 16:29 Francisco Javier Tirado Sarti < [email protected]> ha scritto: > Hi Grabielle, > There is not ,circular dependency between images and tooling. The subject > makes reference to the removed circular dependency between apps and > tooling, that was resolver moving part of the stuff in apps to tooling. > One of the consequences of that move is that images now depends both on > apps and tooling and we are discussing how to handle the latter. > Hope this clarifies. > > On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 11:59 AM Gabriele Cardosi < > [email protected]> > wrote: > > > Hi all, > > please bear with me, but what I'm getting from last messages (correct me > if > > I'm wrong) is that on one side there is a circular dependency between two > > components (kie-tools and kogito-images), and on the other side the > > proposed solution is to put them all in the same repo. > > My doubt is that a circular dependency is a matter of code, not of repo. > > I.e. if module A depends on module B for some code/import, and the other > > way around, putting the two in the same repo does not solve the issue. > > In the maven world this is clearly forbidden, because during the build of > > the overall repo it would not be possible to know which of the two should > > be built before. > > Could someone clarify this detail, please ? > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Il giorno gio 7 mar 2024 alle ore 11:38 Francisco Javier Tirado Sarti < > > [email protected]> ha scritto: > > > > > What I'm trying to say is that changing the streams is probably better > > than > > > doing again what we did with tooling and data-index in the past (in > > > kogito-apps repo), putting unrelated stuff into the same repo (image > and > > > tooling in this case) > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 11:29 AM Francisco Javier Tirado Sarti < > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > So, is it possible to have the following build order (regardless of > kie > > > or > > > > kogito prefix)? > > > > 1) drools 2) runtimes 3) tools 4) images > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 7, 2024 at 10:51 AM Francisco Javier Tirado Sarti < > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > >> Hi Tiago, > > > >> Let's rewind a bit, if we ignore the kie and kogito name controversy > > it > > > >> makes perfect sense that the final image that is delivered for users > > > >> (whatever the name) includes tooling (whatever the name). > > > >> I think we need to assume that fact and devise a solution that > honors > > > it. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 6:50 PM Tiago Bento <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Dominik and Ricardo, > > > >>> > > > >>> I understand your concern with removing features from users. Too > much > > > >>> has grown around the circular dependency we had between > `kogito-apps` > > > >>> and `kie-tools`. We're fixing it now, and it is a challenging task. > > > >>> > > > >>> Rather than stating the "need" of `kogito-images` depending on > > > >>> `kie-tools`, let's keep the focus on the end result. IMHO it is > > > >>> irrelevant on which repo something is hosted, as long as we can do > > > >>> atomic releases and kick-off our release train with Apache KIE 10. > > > >>> That means defining a clear topology of repos during an Apache KIE > > > >>> build, which, by definition, can't contain cycles. > > > >>> > > > >>> Now, `kogito-images` either is part of the `drools` and `kogito-*` > > > >>> streams, or it's not. > > > >>> > > > >>> This PR [1] > > > >>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-kogito-images/pull/1734 > > > >>> introduces a cycle, even without the changes proposed by me on the > > > >>> first email of this thread, so merging this PR would be > introducing a > > > >>> blocker for the Apache KIE 10 release (and for future releases > too). > > > >>> > > > >>> If we really wanted to have `kogito-images` depending on > `kie-tools`, > > > >>> though, we would need to: > > > >>> > > > >>> 1. Make sure `kie-tools` doesn't depend on `kogito-images`; > > > >>> 2. Create a third development stream, just for `kogito-images`, > > > >>> leaving a buffer for `kogito-images` to be updated with the latest > > > >>> `kie-tools` version during a release. Analogous to what we do with > > > >>> `kie-tools` and the `drools` and `kogito-*` stream; > > > >>> 3. Create a mechanism to do timestamped SNAPSHOT releases of > > > >>> `kie-tools`, analogous to what we have on the `drools` and > `kogito-*` > > > >>> streams now. > > > >>> > > > >>> This, IMHO, introduces a lot more complexity to our already > > convoluted > > > >>> release process, so I wouldn't go on that route. > > > >>> > > > >>> With all that said, and to be clear regarding the topology of the > > > >>> repository, to successfully build and release Apache KIE 10, we > need > > > >>> to take all 22 repositories [1] we have in Apache right now, and > sort > > > >>> them in a way that we can build them one by one, only once, without > > > >>> referencing older versions of any 1st-party > > > >>> package/module/image/artifact. > > > >>> > > > >>> We can't think about our repos in the same way we used to. KIE > Tools > > > >>> won't have a release published before nor after a Drools or Kogito > > > >>> Runtimes release. Everything will be released at the same time. > > That's > > > >>> the mindset shift we all need to get used to if we want to do > atomic > > > >>> releases of Apache KIE. > > > >>> > > > >>> I hope it is clearer now why we can't have `kogito-images` > depending > > > >>> on `kie-tools` if `kogito-images` continues to be part of the > > `drools` > > > >>> and `kogito-*` development streams. > > > >>> > > > >>> The way I see it, Dominik came to this mail thread with an > important > > > >>> and valid concern, which now we need to solve together, as a > > > >>> community. > > > >>> > > > >>> I'll keep my suggestions of either moving the image from > > > >>> `kogito-images` to `kie-tools`, or removing the dependency of SWF > > > >>> Quarkus Dev UI from it. Of course, the PR [1] can't be merged, as > it > > > >>> will introduce a dependency cycle, so I'm -1'ing that PR too, given > > > >>> the blocker it will introduce to the Apache KIE 10 release. > > > >>> > > > >>> Is this image being used anywhere else? Or is `kn-plugin-workflow` > > the > > > >>> only place using it? Why does it need to stay at `kogito-images` > and > > > >>> can't go to `kie-tools`? Same questions for the image being > > introduced > > > >>> by [1]. > > > >>> > > > >>> Let me know if I'm missing something, but I feel like our best > course > > > >>> of action now would be moving the images to `kie-tools`. > > > >>> > > > >>> Regards, > > > >>> > > > >>> Tiago Bento > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> [1] > > > >>> > > > > > > https://github.com/orgs/apache/repositories?language=&q=incubator-kie&sort=&type=all > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 9:59 AM Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >>> > > > > >>> > Ricardo, > > > >>> > > > > >>> > Here's a better description [1] of the dependency that KIE Tools > > has > > > >>> > with the images. If we have kogito images moved to after KIE > > Tools, I > > > >>> > think we'd create a new circular dependency. > > > >>> > > > > >>> > [1] - > > > >>> > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/821#issuecomment-1896206199 > > > >>> > > > > >>> > On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 9:43 AM ricardo zanini fernandes > > > >>> > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > Alex, > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > I'm not aware of any dependencies in KIE Tools for images. > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 9:44 AM Alex Porcelli < > > [email protected]> > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > Ricardo, > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > IIRC, there’s a dependency in KIE Tools for serverless > workflow > > > >>> with > > > >>> > > > images… if this is correct, your proposal will introduce a > new > > > >>> circular > > > >>> > > > dependency. > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 7:39 AM ricardo zanini fernandes < > > > >>> > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > Hi! > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > A strong -1 from my side moving the images to kie-tools. We > > can > > > >>> release > > > >>> > > > the > > > >>> > > > > images after a kie-tools release or patch the images with a > > new > > > >>> kie-tools > > > >>> > > > > release if that comes out. It's ok to depend on it, I just > > need > > > >>> help to > > > >>> > > > > setup the pipelines and CI. > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > So, when releasing SonatFlow images, we can grab the latest > > > >>> available > > > >>> > > > > kie-tools version, pack it and ship it. If a new release > > comes > > > >>> up and we > > > >>> > > > > need the fix, we can of course do a patch release. > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > We just need to automate the process. > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > Cheers! > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 9:33 AM Alex Porcelli < > > > >>> [email protected]> > > > >>> > > > wrote: > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > Dominik, > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > The plans and course of action for removing the circular > > > >>> dependency has > > > >>> > > > > > been exhaustively discussed in the mailing list and Zulip > > > >>> channel among > > > >>> > > > > > community and key stakeholders, I don’t think we have > room > > to > > > >>> revisit > > > >>> > > > the > > > >>> > > > > > decision that has been already agreed. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > With that being said, I don’t think the current plans > > removes > > > >>> any > > > >>> > > > > > functionality, we are just moving things from one > > repository > > > to > > > >>> > > > another. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 2:19 AM Dominik Hanak < > > > >>> [email protected]> > > > >>> > > > > > wrote: > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > Hi Tiago, > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > that is a problem, we are removing an important > > > >>> functionality for our > > > >>> > > > > SWF > > > >>> > > > > > > users, imho it is a killer feature in this case. > > > >>> > > > > > > I am against it, there needs to be a solution where we > > can > > > >>> depend on > > > >>> > > > > > > kie-tools with kie-kogito-images. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > Another thing that is currently open as a PR [2] that > > makes > > > >>> images > > > >>> > > > > depend > > > >>> > > > > > > on kie-tools. Here we are following > > > >>> > > > > > > the approach you started in kiegroup and we were not > > aware > > > >>> of any > > > >>> > > > > > changes, > > > >>> > > > > > > now with the unexpected and sudden changes it is > > > irrelevant? > > > >>> > > > > > > Do you have a proposal on how to achieve what we have > in > > > [2] > > > >>> after > > > >>> > > > the > > > >>> > > > > > > circular dependency issue is fixed according to the > > > proposal > > > >>> > > > > annoucement? > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > Dominik > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > [2] > > > >>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-kogito-images/pull/1734 > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > On Wed, 6 Mar 2024 at 02:10, Tiago Bento < > > > >>> > > > > [email protected]> > > > >>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > Hi Dominik, > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > That is indeed an oversight on our part. Thanks for > > > >>> pointing that > > > >>> > > > > out. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > Unfortunately, given the two development streams > > > (`drools` > > > >>> and > > > >>> > > > > > > > `kogito-*`, and `kie-tools`), we can't have > > > `kogito-images` > > > >>> > > > depending > > > >>> > > > > > > > on packages that will start being hosted on > > `kie-tools`, > > > >>> since > > > >>> > > > > > > > `kogito-images` is part of the `drools` and > `kogito-*` > > > >>> development > > > >>> > > > > > > > stream, which is upstream from `kie-tools`' > > perspective. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > Since all Dev UI packages are moving to `kie-tools`, > > > >>> images on > > > >>> > > > > > > > `kogito-images` can't depend on them. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > I'm not familiar with the structure of > `kogito-images`, > > > >>> nor the > > > >>> > > > > > > > purpose of this image that uses SWF's Quarkus Dev UI, > > but > > > >>> following > > > >>> > > > > > > > the same reasoning we did for > > `kogito-management-console` > > > >>> and > > > >>> > > > > > > > `kogito-task-console`, my suggestion would be moving > > this > > > >>> image to > > > >>> > > > > > > > `kie-tools`. Another option I can see is simply > > removing > > > >>> the > > > >>> > > > Quarkus > > > >>> > > > > > > > Dev UI dependency on this image. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > I'd wait for other opinions, though, as I'm not the > > best > > > >>> person to > > > >>> > > > > > > > answer SWF-related questions. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > Regards, > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > Tiago Bento > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 5, 2024 at 9:31 AM Dominik Hanak < > > > >>> > > > [email protected]> > > > >>> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > Hi Tiago, > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > Thanks for moving this forward. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > I have one thing to highlight with > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-kogito-images > > > >>> > > > > > > > > I noticed [1], where the swf devui is being used in > > an > > > >>> image. > > > >>> > > > Imho > > > >>> > > > > > that > > > >>> > > > > > > > > would require adjustments to the nightly pipelines > & > > > >>> release > > > >>> > > > > process. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > Would it be possible to add tasks to the plan that > > > ensure > > > >>> > > > required > > > >>> > > > > > > > > adjustments to our CI once the migration is done? > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > Dominik > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > [1] > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-kogito-images/blob/ce62b9d86c2ea0385ab85c3ef5339afe5ecdea72/modules/kogito-swf/devmode/build-config/module.yaml#L30 > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > On Fri, 1 Mar 2024 at 05:54, Tiago Bento < > > > >>> [email protected]> > > > >>> > > > > > > wrote: > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > Following up on the status of this effort. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > I know I'm a bit late on the email, but it paid > > off, > > > >>> as we just > > > >>> > > > > had > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > our first green build [1] of KIE Tools with Java > > 17, > > > >>> Quarkus > > > >>> > > > > 3.2.9, > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > Maven 3.9.6 and Kogito 999-20240218-SNAPSHOT. We > > > ended > > > >>> up > > > >>> > > > > deciding > > > >>> > > > > > to > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > do items 1. and 2. together after all, but we > > > couldn't > > > >>> use the > > > >>> > > > > > latest > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > timestamped SNAPSHOT due to > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-25546, > > > >>> which > > > >>> > > > > prevented > > > >>> > > > > > > the > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > publication of the timestamped SNAPSHOT to > succeed. > > > >>> That's why > > > >>> > > > we > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > picked 20240218, not 20240225. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > We will proceed with some manual checks now to > > > confirm > > > >>> that > > > >>> > > > > > > everything > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > is working properly, and I hope on the next > status > > > >>> update we > > > >>> > > > will > > > >>> > > > > > > have > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > the big blocker removed and that we have already > > made > > > >>> some > > > >>> > > > > progress > > > >>> > > > > > > on > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > items other than 1. and 2.. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > It's been great seeing everyone working together > to > > > >>> move this > > > >>> > > > > > forward > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > as fast as possible. Thanks a lot Eder, Thiago, > > > >>> Rodrigo, Alex, > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > Fabrizio, Paulo, and Yeser! > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > [1] > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-tools/actions/runs/8105498131/job/22153897965 > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 5:59 AM Francisco Javier > > > >>> Tirado Sarti > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > Hi Tiago, > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > It was a nice morning reading ;) Thanks for all > > the > > > >>> time > > > >>> > > > > invested > > > >>> > > > > > > on > > > >>> > > > > > > > such > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > detailed writing. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > @Ricardo Zanini <[email protected]> @Walter > > > Medvedeo > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> I guess dev ui > can > > be > > > >>> removed > > > >>> > > > > from > > > >>> > > > > > > > current > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > examples, at least from the ones I'm familiar > > with, > > > >>> since > > > >>> > > > their > > > >>> > > > > > > > README > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > files do not really require any graphical tool. > > But > > > >>> to be > > > >>> > > > > honest, > > > >>> > > > > > > > since I > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > have focused my work on SWF simple showcase > > > >>> examples, I'm > > > >>> > > > not > > > >>> > > > > > 100% > > > >>> > > > > > > > sure > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > that's the same case for more elaborate ones, > can > > > >>> you please > > > >>> > > > > > check > > > >>> > > > > > > > that > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > it > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > is fine to remove dev ui? If this is not the > > case, > > > >>> maybe > > > >>> > > > those > > > >>> > > > > > > > examples > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > can > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > be moved to the tools repository (points 9 and > 10 > > > of > > > >>> Tiago's > > > >>> > > > > > email) > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 2:29 AM Tiago Bento < > > > >>> > > > > > [email protected] > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > DISCLAIMER: this is a long email. Feel free > to > > > >>> jump to the > > > >>> > > > > > bottom > > > >>> > > > > > > > for > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > the concrete task list. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > This email aims to explain the issue and lay > > out > > > >>> the > > > >>> > > > efforts > > > >>> > > > > > that > > > >>> > > > > > > > are > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > in place to fix it. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Before we start digging into the problem, we > > need > > > >>> to > > > >>> > > > > > understand a > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > little bit of the history of the KIE > community > > > and > > > >>> the > > > >>> > > > Kogito > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > initiative, at least from the part I started > > > >>> contributing > > > >>> > > > to > > > >>> > > > > it > > > >>> > > > > > > > anyway > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > :) > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Back in Business Central days, we had a > single > > > >>> stream of > > > >>> > > > > > > > development. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > We had robust CI jobs that would build the > > entire > > > >>> stack, > > > >>> > > > from > > > >>> > > > > > > > `drools` > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > to `kie-wb-distributions`. When Kogito came > > > about, > > > >>> there > > > >>> > > > was > > > >>> > > > > a > > > >>> > > > > > > > fission > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > in our pipelines. Kogito started to release > > > >>> independently > > > >>> > > > > from > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > everything else, and because of the organic > way > > > >>> things > > > >>> > > > > started > > > >>> > > > > > to > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > organize themselves, the Kogito Tooling > > > initiative > > > >>> needed > > > >>> > > > to > > > >>> > > > > > have > > > >>> > > > > > > > its > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > own release cycle as well. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Up until we started the migration to Apache, > > > >>> Business > > > >>> > > > Central > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > continued on its `7.x` stream, Kogito was at > > > `1.x` > > > >>> stream, > > > >>> > > > > and > > > >>> > > > > > > > Kogito > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Tooling (which was already called KIE Tools) > > was > > > >>> still on > > > >>> > > > > > `0.x`. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Drools started its own release stream as > well, > > > >>> with `8.x`, > > > >>> > > > > and > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > OptaPlanner I believe had jumped to `9.x` > > > already. > > > >>> This > > > >>> > > > > > > > fragmentation > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > had technical implications, which we are > trying > > > to > > > >>> overcome > > > >>> > > > > > right > > > >>> > > > > > > > now > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > with Apache KIE 10. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > The Apache KIE 10 release is aimed to be an > > > atomic > > > >>> release, > > > >>> > > > > > where > > > >>> > > > > > > > the > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > entire Apache KIE community follows a single > > > >>> release > > > >>> > > > stream. > > > >>> > > > > > This > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > means we need to make sure our code base is > in > > > >>> sync, from > > > >>> > > > > > > `drools` > > > >>> > > > > > > > to > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > `kie-tools`. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > This whole conversation of course doesn't > come > > > >>> without a > > > >>> > > > > > > > background of > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > CI pipelines, organizational perspectives of > > what > > > >>> Apache > > > >>> > > > KIE > > > >>> > > > > > is, > > > >>> > > > > > > > and > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > even poly- vs. mono-repo discussions. This is > > not > > > >>> the focus > > > >>> > > > > of > > > >>> > > > > > > this > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > issue, and I believe with time we'll converge > > > into > > > >>> > > > something > > > >>> > > > > > > > everyone > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > is comfortable with and that ultimately > serves > > > our > > > >>> users > > > >>> > > > > well. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Due to the lack of unification and > flexibility > > > >>> while > > > >>> > > > > > > bootstrapping > > > >>> > > > > > > > new > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > efforts, KIE Tools had to come up with a way > to > > > >>> depend on > > > >>> > > > the > > > >>> > > > > > new > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > stuff (i.e. Kogito) without sacrificing its > own > > > >>> integrity > > > >>> > > > and > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > stability. KIE Tools, as many of you know, > > > evolved > > > >>> to be a > > > >>> > > > > > > polyglot > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > monorepo, hosting Java, > JavaScript/TypeScript, > > Go > > > >>> and > > > >>> > > > Docker > > > >>> > > > > > > > images. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > There's a multitude of technologies at play > on > > > KIE > > > >>> Tools, > > > >>> > > > > which > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > ultimately gives our users KIE Sandbox, VS > Code > > > >>> and Chrome > > > >>> > > > > > > > Extensions, > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > and Standalone Editors that can be used as > > > regular > > > >>> > > > libraries > > > >>> > > > > on > > > >>> > > > > > > web > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > applications. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > The technical solution we found on > `kie-tools` > > > was > > > >>> > > > depending > > > >>> > > > > on > > > >>> > > > > > > > Kogito > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > as if it were a 3rd party dependency. We > have a > > > >>> single, > > > >>> > > > fixed > > > >>> > > > > > > > version > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > of it and we manually upgrade it to the > latest > > > one > > > >>> > > > available > > > >>> > > > > > when > > > >>> > > > > > > > we > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > need to. This has worked amazingly well, > > allowing > > > >>> us to own > > > >>> > > > > the > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > codebase and avoid random breaks coming from > > > >>> SNAPSHOT > > > >>> > > > > > artifacts. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > This allowed the `drools` and `kogito-*` > > > >>> repositories to > > > >>> > > > > evolve > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > independently of `kie-tools`. This also made > > > >>> `kie-tools` > > > >>> > > > > > > > responsible > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > for adapting itself to changes coming from > > > >>> `drools` and > > > >>> > > > > > > `kogito-*`. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Luckily, we didn't have many > incompatibilities, > > > >>> but right > > > >>> > > > now > > > >>> > > > > > we > > > >>> > > > > > > > have > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > an important one, that we'll discuss below. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Note that at this point, and for this issue > in > > > >>> particular, > > > >>> > > > it > > > >>> > > > > > is > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > unimportant to discuss why things were done > the > > > >>> way they > > > >>> > > > > were, > > > >>> > > > > > or > > > >>> > > > > > > > what > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > we should've done instead. I'm laying out the > > > >>> facts so that > > > >>> > > > > we > > > >>> > > > > > > can > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > understand how we're moving forward now. Of > > > >>> course, I would > > > >>> > > > > > > > personally > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > love to debate this on a separate thread :) > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > One of the most impactful features of KIE > > Sandbox > > > >>> is the > > > >>> > > > DMN > > > >>> > > > > > > > Runner. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > It allows people to rapidly interact with > their > > > >>> Decisions > > > >>> > > > as > > > >>> > > > > > they > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > author them, and this was all made possible > > > >>> because of the > > > >>> > > > > JIT > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Executor (hosted at `kogito-apps`). KIE > Sandbox > > > >>> also > > > >>> > > > started > > > >>> > > > > to > > > >>> > > > > > > > allow > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > users to deploy their Decisions to OpenShift, > > > then > > > >>> later to > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Kubernetes, and now recently we allow users > to > > > >>> deploy > > > >>> > > > > anything > > > >>> > > > > > to > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > OpenShift and Kubernetes, with a very high > > level > > > of > > > >>> > > > > > > customization. > > > >>> > > > > > > > All > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > these features depend on `kogito-*`, Quarkus, > > and > > > >>> all the > > > >>> > > > > > things > > > >>> > > > > > > > that > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > come with them. Including the Java version. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Logically, `kie-tools` depends on `drools` > and > > > >>> `kogito-*`, > > > >>> > > > as > > > >>> > > > > > > > `drools` > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > and `kogito-*` can (and do!) exist and > function > > > >>> without > > > >>> > > > > Tools, > > > >>> > > > > > > but > > > >>> > > > > > > > not > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > the other way around. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > As `kie-tools` started growing, maturing, and > > > >>> releasing > > > >>> > > > some > > > >>> > > > > > > > pieces of > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > technology that were useful to other domains > > > (i.e. > > > >>> > > > > Multiplying > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Architecture), it became a dependency for > other > > > >>> projects. > > > >>> > > > > Users > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > started depending on our Standalone Editors, > > but > > > >>> also on > > > >>> > > > the > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Multiplying Architecture packages. One good > > > >>> example is > > > >>> > > > Kaoto, > > > >>> > > > > > > which > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > released a VS Code extension aligned with our > > > >>> architecture. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > The capability of encapsulating web > components > > in > > > >>> any > > > >>> > > > > > technology > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > behind a well defined, statically typed API > was > > > >>> really > > > >>> > > > > > appealing, > > > >>> > > > > > > > and > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > when the Kogito initiative started to design > > > their > > > >>> Runtime > > > >>> > > > > > Tools > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > (i.e., Quarkus Dev UIs, Management Console, > and > > > >>> Task > > > >>> > > > Inbox), > > > >>> > > > > > > using > > > >>> > > > > > > > the > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Multiplying Architecture was the way to go. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > That's when the circular dependency started. > We > > > had > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > `kogito-apps/ui-packages` depending on > > > >>> `kie-tools`. Note > > > >>> > > > that > > > >>> > > > > > it > > > >>> > > > > > > > was > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > also logical for these packages to be part of > > the > > > >>> > > > `kogito-*` > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > repositories and release stream. Users > > upgrading > > > >>> to a new > > > >>> > > > > > version > > > >>> > > > > > > > of > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Kogito would also need to have their Task > > Inbox, > > > >>> Management > > > >>> > > > > > > > Console, > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > and Quarkus Dev UIs aligned with the new > > version > > > >>> of Kogito. > > > >>> > > > > Not > > > >>> > > > > > > to > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > mention Job Service, Data Index etc. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > For many months (or years!), this was not an > > > >>> issue, as the > > > >>> > > > > > > > Multiplying > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Architecture packages were very stable and > very > > > >>> rarely were > > > >>> > > > > > > > modified. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > The last big change we had was 3 years ago, > > with > > > >>> the > > > >>> > > > > > introduction > > > >>> > > > > > > > of > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Shared Values [1], which did not impact the > > > >>> fire-and-forget > > > >>> > > > > and > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Promise-based mechanisms we already had in > > place. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Although we were aware of this circular > > > dependency > > > >>> from the > > > >>> > > > > > > > beginning, > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > it was not that big of a deal for > `kogito-apps` > > > to > > > >>> depend > > > >>> > > > on > > > >>> > > > > an > > > >>> > > > > > > > older, > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > dephased version of `kie-tools`. We didn't > have > > > >>> plans of > > > >>> > > > > > unifying > > > >>> > > > > > > > the > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > streams anyway, and it was the best solution > > for > > > >>> our users > > > >>> > > > to > > > >>> > > > > > > have > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > their Runtime Tools packages released > together > > > >>> with the > > > >>> > > > > Kogito > > > >>> > > > > > > > stream. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > That of course changed after the migration to > > > >>> Apache. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > If you reached this point, thank you for your > > > >>> interest in a > > > >>> > > > > > > little > > > >>> > > > > > > > bit > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > of the history of KIE, and I hope you can now > > > >>> understand > > > >>> > > > why > > > >>> > > > > > > things > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > are the way they are. Let's talk about what > > > >>> changed and > > > >>> > > > what > > > >>> > > > > we > > > >>> > > > > > > are > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > doing to adapt to the new requirements. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Hinting a little bit to what I mentioned > above, > > > >>> this > > > >>> > > > > discussion > > > >>> > > > > > > is > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > very intertwined with the CI pipelines and > > > >>> > > > > versioning/releasing > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > strategies subjects, as we are essentially > > > >>> discussing code > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > organization, coupling/decoupling and > > granularity > > > >>> of stuff, > > > >>> > > > > and > > > >>> > > > > > > to > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > make things easier at least for a while, > > `drools` > > > >>> and > > > >>> > > > > > `kogito-*` > > > >>> > > > > > > > will > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > continue being a separate stream from > > > `kie-tools`. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > `drools` and `kogito-*` will continue being > > able > > > >>> to evolve > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > independently of `kie-tools`, and `kie-tools` > > > will > > > >>> continue > > > >>> > > > > > > > adapting > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > itself to whatever changes on `drools` and > > > >>> `kogito-*`. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > At the same time, Apache KIE 10 (and the next > > > >>> releases > > > >>> > > > too!) > > > >>> > > > > > will > > > >>> > > > > > > > be > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > atomic. And for our users, a single release > > > stream. > > > >>> > > > > `drools@10 > > > >>> > > > > > ` > > > >>> > > > > > > > and > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > `kogito-*@10` will be used on `kie-tools@10 > `. > > We > > > >>> started > > > >>> > > > > this > > > >>> > > > > > > > effort a > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > while ago, and although we should've been > more > > > >>> open about > > > >>> > > > it > > > >>> > > > > > from > > > >>> > > > > > > > the > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > beginning, we are also learning how to > properly > > > >>> communicate > > > >>> > > > > > > inside > > > >>> > > > > > > > the > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Apache structure. Better late than never :) > > > Thanks > > > >>> for the > > > >>> > > > > tip > > > >>> > > > > > > > Tibor! > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Here's how we'll do it: > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > 1. A couple of weeks ago, one of our newest > > > >>> committers. > > > >>> > > > > Rodrigo > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Antunes, created automated jobs to weekly > > > publish a > > > >>> > > > > timestamped > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > SNAPSHOT version of `drools` and `kogito-*`. > > This > > > >>> will > > > >>> > > > allow > > > >>> > > > > us > > > >>> > > > > > > to > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > have a persistent, immutable version to point > > to > > > on > > > >>> > > > > > `kie-tools`, > > > >>> > > > > > > > even > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > without having a full release. Timestamped > > > >>> SNAPSHOTs, as > > > >>> > > > > we're > > > >>> > > > > > > > calling > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > them, are a little bit different than normal > > > Maven > > > >>> > > > SNAPSHOTs, > > > >>> > > > > > as > > > >>> > > > > > > > there > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > is no `updatePolicy`, so as time passes, the > > > >>> downloaded > > > >>> > > > > > artifacts > > > >>> > > > > > > > do > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > not change. This allows `kie-tools` to be > > stable > > > >>> and > > > >>> > > > > > incorporate > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > changes done to `drools` and `kogito-*` at > its > > > own > > > >>> pace. We > > > >>> > > > > > also > > > >>> > > > > > > > moved > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > the publication of > > > `@kie-tools/jitexecutor-native` > > > >>> to this > > > >>> > > > > new > > > >>> > > > > > > > job, so > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > we won't have to maintain it on the > `kie-tools` > > > >>> side > > > >>> > > > anymore. > > > >>> > > > > > > > Thanks > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Rodrigo! > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > 2. When we define the code freeze prior to > > > >>> releasing Apache > > > >>> > > > > > KIE, > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > `drools` and `kogito-*` will need to be > frozen > > a > > > >>> little bit > > > >>> > > > > > > earlier > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > than `kie-tools`, leaving a buffer for > > > `kie-tools` > > > >>> to start > > > >>> > > > > > > > pointing > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > to the latest timestamped SNAPSHOT and > adapting > > > >>> itself to > > > >>> > > > the > > > >>> > > > > > > > changes. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > My initial thoughts are around 2 weeks, but > > with > > > >>> constant > > > >>> > > > > > updates > > > >>> > > > > > > > and > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > proper alignment between the two streams, I > see > > > >>> this time > > > >>> > > > > > > reducing > > > >>> > > > > > > > to > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > a couple of days for upcoming releases. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > 3. After `kie-tools` is fully functional > > pointing > > > >>> to the > > > >>> > > > > latest > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > timestamped SNAPSHOT of `drools` and > > `kogito-*`, > > > >>> we can now > > > >>> > > > > > start > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > preparing for the actual release. We will cut > > new > > > >>> branches > > > >>> > > > > for > > > >>> > > > > > > the > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > next version (i.e. 10.0.0) and update all > > > >>> configuration > > > >>> > > > files > > > >>> > > > > > > that > > > >>> > > > > > > > we > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > have to. This will be done on `drools`, > > > >>> `kogito-*`, and > > > >>> > > > > > > > `kie-tools`. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Every module/package will declare the same > > > >>> version, and > > > >>> > > > will > > > >>> > > > > > > > depend on > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > the upstream modules/packages with the same > > > >>> version as > > > >>> > > > well. > > > >>> > > > > We > > > >>> > > > > > > can > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > proceed with this staging phase as normal. > > > Running > > > >>> > > > > > > automated/manual > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > tests and eventually signing off that > > everything > > > >>> is good to > > > >>> > > > > go. > > > >>> > > > > > > > (I'm > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > not 100% on the timeline for the Apache > > release, > > > >>> but with > > > >>> > > > > this > > > >>> > > > > > > > process > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > we can guarantee that we will vote on > branches > > > >>> that won't > > > >>> > > > > > change > > > >>> > > > > > > > when > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > we decide to release. It will be a matter of > > > >>> pushing tags > > > >>> > > > > > > pointing > > > >>> > > > > > > > to > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > these release branches). > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > With the release process defined, we can now > > > >>> discuss the > > > >>> > > > > exact > > > >>> > > > > > > > actions > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > we're taking to remove the circular > dependency > > we > > > >>> have > > > >>> > > > > between > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > `kie-tools` and `kogito-apps`. All of which > > will > > > >>> need to be > > > >>> > > > > > > > addressed > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > prior to starting the release process. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > 1. (Fabrizio - IN PROGRESS) Make sure > > `kie-tools` > > > >>> is on > > > >>> > > > Java > > > >>> > > > > > 17, > > > >>> > > > > > > > Maven > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > 3.9.6, and Quarkus 3. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > ( > > > >>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/960 > > > >>> > > > ) > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > There's a complication here, since we > still > > > >>> have three > > > >>> > > > > big > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > packages (Serverless Workflow Diagram Editor, > > > >>> BPMN, DMN, > > > >>> > > > and > > > >>> > > > > > > SceSim > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Editors, and DashBuilder) on `kie-tools` that > > > need > > > >>> GWT, and > > > >>> > > > > as > > > >>> > > > > > > you > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > know, GWT together with Java upgrades usually > > > >>> require some > > > >>> > > > > > work. > > > >>> > > > > > > > We're > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > on GWT 2.10, which should already support > Java > > > 17, > > > >>> but > > > >>> > > > we'll > > > >>> > > > > > know > > > >>> > > > > > > > more > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > once we try it. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > 2. (Fabrizio - NOT YET STARTED) Make sure > > > >>> `kie-tools` is > > > >>> > > > > using > > > >>> > > > > > > the > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > latest timestamped SNAPSHOT from `kogito-*`. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > ( > > > >>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/965 > > > >>> > > > ) > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > We have them built and published every > > Sunday > > > >>> EOD, so > > > >>> > > > on > > > >>> > > > > > > Monday > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > (Feb 25th, 2024) we'll have a brand new one > to > > > >>> start > > > >>> > > > working > > > >>> > > > > > > with. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > 3. (Thiago - IN PROGRESS) Move > > > >>> `kogito-apps/ui-packages` to > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > `kie-tools`. ( > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/833) > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > We started a couple of weeks ago, and we > > > >>> should be ~80% > > > >>> > > > > > done > > > >>> > > > > > > > with > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > it > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > by now. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > 4. (Fabrizio - PR SENT, but blocked by 1. and > > 2.) > > > >>> Move the > > > >>> > > > > SWF > > > >>> > > > > > > > Quarkus > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Dev UI package from `kogito-apps` to > > `kie-tools`. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > ( > > > >>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-tools/pull/2167) > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > This can only be done after 1. and 2. are > > > >>> merged, since > > > >>> > > > > > this > > > >>> > > > > > > > move > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > will require `kie-tools` to be ready to build > > > >>> packages with > > > >>> > > > > > Java > > > >>> > > > > > > > 17, > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Maven 3.9.6, and Quarkus 3. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > 5. (Thiago - NOT YET STARTED) Move the BPMN > > > >>> Quarkus Dev UI > > > >>> > > > > > > package > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > from `kogito-apps` to `kie-tools`. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > ( > > > >>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/966 > > > >>> > > > ) > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > We'll follow the lead of Fabrizio's PR > from > > > 4. > > > >>> That's > > > >>> > > > > > > > essentially > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > doing exactly the same thing for the BPMN > > Quarkus > > > >>> Dev UI > > > >>> > > > > > module. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > 6. (Rodrigo - NOT YET STARTED) Change the > > Jenkins > > > >>> release > > > >>> > > > > jobs > > > >>> > > > > > to > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > include publishing both Quarkus Dev UI > modules > > to > > > >>> Maven > > > >>> > > > > central > > > >>> > > > > > > as > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > part of the Apache release. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > ( > > > >>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/964 > > > >>> > > > ) > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Should be pretty straight-forward, as we > > > >>> already have > > > >>> > > > > > > > experience > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > doing this for other repos. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > 7. (Thiago - NOT YET STARTED) Change the > > > ownership > > > >>> of > > > >>> > > > > > > > `task-console` > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > and `management-console` images from > > > >>> `kogito-images` to > > > >>> > > > > > > > `kie-tools`. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > ( > > > >>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/963 > > > >>> > > > ) > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > KIE Tools already hosts and publishes > > several > > > >>> images, > > > >>> > > > and > > > >>> > > > > > > since > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > the content of those images will now be > hosted > > at > > > >>> > > > > `kie-tools`, > > > >>> > > > > > we > > > >>> > > > > > > > can > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > only host them there. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > This also means we'll get rid of the two > > > >>> Quarkus apps > > > >>> > > > [2] > > > >>> > > > > > > that > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > wrap both consoles' static assets. We could > be > > > >>> wrong about > > > >>> > > > > the > > > >>> > > > > > > > purpose > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > of those apps, so if anyone has more > > information, > > > >>> please do > > > >>> > > > > > reach > > > >>> > > > > > > > out. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise, we'll skip the Quarkusification of > > > >>> those static > > > >>> > > > > > assets > > > >>> > > > > > > > and > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > we'll ship images with `httpd` directly, like > > we > > > >>> do for KIE > > > >>> > > > > > > > Sandbox. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > 8. (Assignee TDB - NOT YET STARTED) Deleting > > > >>> everything > > > >>> > > > that > > > >>> > > > > > was > > > >>> > > > > > > > moved > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > to `kie-tools` from `kogito-apps`. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > ( > > > >>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/962 > > > >>> > > > ) > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > That will be the point where we actually > > get > > > >>> rid of the > > > >>> > > > > > > > circular > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > dependency and remove the blocker for the > > > release. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > 9. (Assignee TDB - NOT YET STARTED) Adapt > > > >>> `kogito-examples` > > > >>> > > > > to > > > >>> > > > > > > all > > > >>> > > > > > > > the > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > changes we mentioned above. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > ( > > > >>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/961 > > > >>> > > > ) > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Kogito Examples keeps being part of the > > > >>> `drools` and > > > >>> > > > > > > `kogito-*` > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > stream, meaning that example modules won't be > > > able > > > >>> to use > > > >>> > > > > > neither > > > >>> > > > > > > > of > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > the Quarkus Dev UIs, as `kie-tools` is > > downstream > > > >>> in > > > >>> > > > relation > > > >>> > > > > > to > > > >>> > > > > > > > the > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > `drools` and `kogito-*` stream. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > The same would be true for Management > > Console > > > >>> and Task > > > >>> > > > > > > Console > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > images, but for them, we can use the > > `daily-dev` > > > >>> tag we > > > >>> > > > > publish > > > >>> > > > > > > > daily > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > from `kie-tools@main`. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > 10. (Assignee TDB - NOT YET STARTED) Create > > some > > > >>> example > > > >>> > > > apps > > > >>> > > > > > > that > > > >>> > > > > > > > use > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > the Quarkus Dev UIs directly on the > `examples` > > > >>> directory of > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > `kie-tools`. ( > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/959) > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > This is to serve the same purpose of > > packages > > > >>> that did > > > >>> > > > > that > > > >>> > > > > > > on > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > `kogito-examples`, but now hosted on > > `kie-tools`. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Pheew! That's a lot of things to do, but it > is > > > the > > > >>> result > > > >>> > > > of > > > >>> > > > > > two > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > intense weeks assessing and planning how we > > would > > > >>> address > > > >>> > > > > this > > > >>> > > > > > > > issue > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > in a way that the Apache KIE 10 release can > be > > > >>> done in a > > > >>> > > > way > > > >>> > > > > > that > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > feels atomic to our users, who are ultimately > > the > > > >>> most > > > >>> > > > > > important > > > >>> > > > > > > > part > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > of the community. There's an open EPIC too at > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/issues/967. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > I appreciate it if you reached this point, > and > > > >>> hope you > > > >>> > > > feel > > > >>> > > > > > > > welcome > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > to contributing to solving this lengthy and > > > >>> historical > > > >>> > > > > problem > > > >>> > > > > > if > > > >>> > > > > > > > you > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > feel like doing so. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > I'll personally send updates to this thread > > every > > > >>> week, on > > > >>> > > > > > > Thursday > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > nights. Do not hesitate to contact me or any > of > > > >>> the people > > > >>> > > > > > > > involved in > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > this effort if you have questions, or simply > > want > > > >>> to chat > > > >>> > > > > about > > > >>> > > > > > > it. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks a lot Alex, Paulo, Fabrizio, Thiago, > > > >>> Rodrigo, and > > > >>> > > > > others > > > >>> > > > > > > > that > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > somehow helped so far. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Tiago Bento > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > P.S.: You might've noticed we left Trusty out > > of > > > >>> the > > > >>> > > > picture > > > >>> > > > > > for > > > >>> > > > > > > > now. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > Thiago is conducting an investigation to > > > >>> understand what > > > >>> > > > > would > > > >>> > > > > > be > > > >>> > > > > > > > the > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > best course of action for it. As much as we > > have > > > >>> plans to > > > >>> > > > > > revive > > > >>> > > > > > > > it, > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > right now our focus has to be on getting > Apache > > > >>> KIE 10 out. > > > >>> > > > > We > > > >>> > > > > > > can > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > always rely on Git to bring it back in the > > > future, > > > >>> if we > > > >>> > > > > > > ultimately > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > decide that wiping out Trusty is the best > > > strategy > > > >>> for this > > > >>> > > > > > > moment. > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > [1] > > > >>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-tools/pull/691 > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > [2] > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-kogito-apps/tree/main/task-console > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-kogito-apps/tree/main/management-console > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > > >>> [email protected] > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > > >>> [email protected] > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > > [email protected] > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > > >>> [email protected] > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > [email protected] > > > >>> > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > [email protected] > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > >>> > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > >>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > > > >
