As Toshiya has highlighted, not only does the legacy API fail for
traditional rule orchestration, but the new "Kogito way" also does not
provide the minimal functionality needed to orchestrate rules
properly. Unfortunately, the current Business Rule Task is almost
useless without the proper support of Drools data structures required
by RuleUnits.
Consequently, the current state of the codebase leaves the broader
concept of rule orchestration unaddressed. This oversight presents a
significant challenge for Drools users transitioning to the 10 series,
potentially alienating a large user base.
To address these issues, I propose the following steps:
1 - Immediate Fix: Resolve the issue with the legacy API as initially
identified. While deprecation of the old system is acceptable for
stateful workflow scenarios, Drools users depend on it for rule
orchestration. Implementing this fix would serve as a temporary
solution with a limited lifespan.
2 - Long-Term Enhancement: Enhance the current Business Rule Task to
ensure seamless integration with the Rule Engine. This involves
refining the interaction points surrounding the rule engine to provide
a robust and reliable orchestration mechanism.
It's worth noting that while alternatives like manually orchestrated
Rule Units using Java code or pure DRL-based approaches exist, they do
not offer the intuitive graphical visualization of rule orchestration
that Drools historically provided. Maintaining this visual aspect is
crucial for user experience and system transparency.
-
Alex
On Thu, Feb 27, 2025 at 1:32 AM Toshiya Kobayashi
<toshiyakobaya...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I talked with Alex that the current KIE 10 supported approach "bpmn2
> RuleSetNode with kogito-codegen + RuleUnit" doesn't cover all migration use
> cases of drools 7 ruleflow.
>
> So I'd like to confirm possible directions.
>
> ----
> A) Create a small subset of bpmn parser and engine (apart from the kogito
> bpmn code base), which aims at only ruleflow (Start, End, Rule, Gateway).
>
> pros: Users can use the existing bpmn editor to author ruleflow bpmn
> files.
> No need for a migration tool.
>
> cons: It will likely have some duplication with the kogito bpmn code base.
>
> B) Create a new feature to support ruleflow. e.g. only changing
> ruleflow-group with/without conditions. It may or may not be like .rf file
>
> * Note: This option's pros and cons are ambiguous as the details are not
> yet defined
>
> pros: The implementation may be smaller than bpmn
>
> cons: Developing a migration tool would require some effort. (or no
> migration tool)
> Developing an authoring UI tool would require some effort. (or no
> authoring tool)
>
> C) Just guide how to migrate ruleflow to drl and java code.
>
> pros: No additional development
>
> cons: Probably it's not possible to create a migration tool. It may
> require a large effort if a user has lots of ruleflows
> ----
>
> Feel free to share your thoughts or preference.
>
> Personally, I like option C for the short-term and option A for the
> mid-term.
>
> This is not a proposal. I just want to know the preference in this dev list
> members and file a GH issue. Even if option A or B is preferred, I (or we)
> may not have time to work on that right now. But it would be useful to
> guide community users with the direction.
>
> Regards,
> Toshiya
>
> On Tue, Jan 28, 2025 at 2:41 PM Toshiya Kobayashi <
> toshiyakobaya...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Alex,
> >
> > In the recent posts in this thread, I see that you are confirming the
> > steps to run a process with kogito codegen in KIE 10. You seem to be
> > exploring a migration guidance for community users who want to use a
> > ruleflow in KIE 10, correct?
> >
> > So it will be another option like the ones I posted, right?
> >
> > > A) Create a small subset of bpmn parser and engine (apart from the
> > kogito bpmn code base), which aims at only ruleflow (Start, End, Rule,
> > Gateway).
> > >
> > > B) Create a new feature to support ruleflow. e.g. only changing
> > ruleflow-group with/without conditions. It may or may not be like .rf file
> > >
> > > C) Just guide how to migrate ruleflow to drl and java code.
> >
> > I may be missing a point. I just wanted to proceed with the discussion.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Toshiya
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 12:26 AM Alex Porcelli <a...@porcelli.me> wrote:
> >
> >> I managed to figure out... for those that are also unsure how to start
> >> a process using Java API... here's (the bpmn file has an ID which
> >> value is "demo1"):
> >>
> >> import java.util.HashMap;
> >> import java.util.Map;
> >> import org.kie.kogito.Model;
> >> import jakarta.enterprise.context.ApplicationScoped;
> >> import jakarta.inject.Inject;
> >> import jakarta.inject.Named;
> >> import org.kie.kogito.process.Process;
> >> import org.kie.kogito.process.ProcessInstance;
> >>
> >> @ApplicationScoped
> >> public class MyCustomService {
> >> @Inject
> >> @Named("demo1")
> >> Process<? extends Model> myProcess;
> >>
> >> public String startMyProcess() {
> >> Model m = myProcess.createModel();
> >> Map<String, Object> parameters = new HashMap<>();
> >> parameters.put("name", "Alex");
> >> m.fromMap(parameters);
> >>
> >> ProcessInstance<?> processInstance = myProcess.createInstance(m);
> >> processInstance.start();
> >>
> >> Model result = (Model) processInstance.variables();
> >>
> >> return result.toMap().get("message").toString();
> >> }
> >> }
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 3:30 PM Alex Porcelli <a...@porcelli.me> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Enrique,
> >> >
> >> > I'm not using any IDE, maven can't compile sources that have
> >> > references to classes defined in generated-sources.
> >> >
> >> > I might be missing something, I'd appreciate it if you could share a
> >> > project with such a config that I could compile with just maven cli.
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 2:59 PM Enrique Gonzalez Martinez
> >> > <elguard...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > The generated sources should be incorporated by your ide in the source
> >> > > paths like maven is doing. It works in eclipse at least. I dont know
> >> other
> >> > > ide.
> >> > >
> >> > > El mar, 21 ene 2025, 20:56, Alex Porcelli <a...@porcelli.me>
> >> escribió:
> >> > >
> >> > > > Enrique,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > To code-gen process Apache KIE resources I need to execute one of
> >> the
> >> > > > following commands: mvn quarkus:build, mvn quarkus:dev, mvn
> >> package.
> >> > > > The generated sources are output to the target/generated-sources
> >> > > > directory. However, I’ve noticed that these generated sources are
> >> not
> >> > > > accessible from the src/main folder. This is making it difficult to
> >> > > > integrate the generated code into the main project workflow.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Am I missing something?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > -
> >> > > > Alex
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 12:57 PM Enrique Gonzalez Martinez
> >> > > > <elguard...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I don't see why. If you want to create a workflow.
> >> > > > > 1 define it
> >> > > > > 2 codegen
> >> > > > > 3 compile it
> >> > > > > 4 runtime
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > There is no cycle
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > El mar, 21 ene 2025, 18:54, Alex Porcelli <a...@porcelli.me>
> >> escribió:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > If code-gen is required, don’t we have a chicken-egg problem?
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > How users can use an API that will be generated in the future?
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > -
> >> > > > > > Alex
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 12:47 PM Enrique Gonzalez Martinez <
> >> > > > > > elguard...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > The kie api is a library inside the runtimes project and the
> >> > > > > > implementation
> >> > > > > > > of the start is in jbpm-flow project. Related to the process
> >> > > > definition
> >> > > > > > > requires codegen.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > El mar, 21 ene 2025, 18:15, Alex Porcelli <a...@porcelli.me>
> >> > > > escribió:
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Thank you for the reference, Enrique.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > But how is this API supposed to work? I mean… it’s part of
> >> the
> >> > > > codegen
> >> > > > > > > > (during build) that the Model class is generated for the
> >> current
> >> > > > > > project.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > -
> >> > > > > > > > Alex
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 10:06 AM Enrique Gonzalez Martinez <
> >> > > > > > > > elguard...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > This is an example... Even if you are a listener this
> >> should be
> >> > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > endpoint. For some reason internal api and exposed api
> >> became
> >> > > > > > > > > entangled at some point so even if you go low code if you
> >> want
> >> > > > > > > > > persistence it should be like this.
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> https://github.com/kiegroup/kogito-runtimes/blob/main/jbpm/jbpm-tests/src/test/java/org/jbpm/bpmn2/ActivityTest.java#L233-L234
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > El mar, 21 ene 2025 a las 10:10, Toshiya Kobayashi
> >> > > > > > > > > (<toshiyakobaya...@gmail.com>) escribió:
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > Hi Enrique,
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > Dont use kie session start workflow. Kie-api should
> >> be used
> >> > > > > > > instead.
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > My example is a plain java in-memory ruleflow use case
> >> (not a
> >> > > > > > > > persistent
> >> > > > > > > > > > process nor a kogito service). ksession.startProcess()
> >> is the
> >> > > > only
> >> > > > > > > way
> >> > > > > > > > I
> >> > > > > > > > > > know to start a ruleflow.
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > Could you let me know the right method which you
> >> mentioned as
> >> > > > > > > "Kie-api
> >> > > > > > > > > > should be used instead" ?
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > Toshiya
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 2:52 PM Enrique Gonzalez
> >> Martinez <
> >> > > > > > > > > > elguard...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > Dont use kie session start workflow. Kie-api should
> >> be used
> >> > > > > > > instead.
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > El mar, 21 ene 2025, 3:54, Toshiya Kobayashi <
> >> > > > > > > > > toshiyakobaya...@gmail.com>
> >> > > > > > > > > > > escribió:
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > but my concern is that it feels that we are back
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > almost 20 years ago, just before we introduce
> >> RulesFlow.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it's true. This is the most basic solution and
> >> the
> >> > > > only
> >> > > > > > > > > supported
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > solution as of 10.0.0 + kjar.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > would it be possible to point an
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > example (or unit test) how to start a workflow
> >> using
> >> > > > plain
> >> > > > > > java
> >> > > > > > > > > api?
> >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > kSession.startProcess(processId) starts a bpmn
> >> process.
> >> > > > It's
> >> > > > > > > > > supported in
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > 7.74.0.Final.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> https://github.com/tkobayas/kiegroup-examples/blob/master/Ex-ruleflow-migration/Ex-ruleflow-bpmn-7.74/src/main/java/com/sample/DroolsTest.java#L21
> >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > It also works in 10.0.0, but it depends on a legacy
> >> runtime
> >> > > > > > which
> >> > > > > > > > > will be
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > removed as Enrique mentioned.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> https://github.com/tkobayas/kiegroup-examples/blob/master/Ex-ruleflow-10.0.0/src/main/java/com/sample/DroolsTest.java#L17
> >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > However, I guess Alex is asking for something
> >> different...
> >> > > > > > Please
> >> > > > > > > > > let me
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > know the requirements in detail.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > Toshiya
> >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 11:06 PM Alex Porcelli <
> >> > > > > > a...@porcelli.me
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Another somewhat related question: would it be
> >> possible
> >> > > > to
> >> > > > > > > point
> >> > > > > > > > an
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > example (or unit test) how to start a workflow
> >> using
> >> > > > plain
> >> > > > > > java
> >> > > > > > > > > api?
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 8:53 AM Enrique Gonzalez
> >> Martinez
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > <elguard...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Given the current native implementation, it is
> >> not
> >> > > > > > possible.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You would need to rework the rule node in
> >> workflow
> >> > > > > > probably.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > El lun, 20 ene 2025, 14:50, Alex Porcelli <
> >> > > > > > a...@porcelli.me>
> >> > > > > > > > > > > escribió:
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enrique,
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My question still.. How is it possible to
> >> load a
> >> > > > bunch of
> >> > > > > > > > data
> >> > > > > > > > > into
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Drools and orchestrate multiple groups of
> >> rules
> >> > > > without
> >> > > > > > > > having
> >> > > > > > > > > to
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > iterate over and over again on those loads of
> >> data.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 16, 2025 at 11:49 AM Enrique
> >> Gonzalez
> >> > > > > > Martinez
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <elguard...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Alex,
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only reason working memory exists in
> >> BPMN is
> >> > > > to be
> >> > > > > > > used
> >> > > > > > > > > in
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conditional nodes which does not make much
> >> sense
> >> > > > IMO.
> >> > > > > > > (the
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > replacement
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for java conditional was already on the way)
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This was dropped at some point in kogito
> >> (don't
> >> > > > know
> >> > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > reasons
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > why)
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but makes sense as working memory access
> >> does not
> >> > > > make
> >> > > > > > > > sense
> >> > > > > > > > > from
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > workflow engine.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How to orchestrate something like you are
> >> > > > referring is
> >> > > > > > > more
> >> > > > > > > > > rule
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > engine
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > side.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > El jue, 16 ene 2025 a las 17:05, Tibor
> >> Zimányi (<
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > tzima...@apache.org
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >)
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escribió:
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Alex,
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the orchestration could be done
> >> with rule
> >> > > > > > units
> >> > > > > > > > > instead
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > of
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > using a
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BPMN process to orchestrate the rule
> >> execution.
> >> > > > > > However
> >> > > > > > > > > maybe I
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > am
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > missing
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > some context about rule units and I am
> >> wrong.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards,
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tibor
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dňa št 16. 1. 2025, 15:40 Alex Porcelli <
> >> > > > > > > > > porce...@apache.org>
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > napísal(a):
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you Toshiya for the reference.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me step back ignoring kjar and
> >> etc... and
> >> > > > ask:
> >> > > > > > > > could
> >> > > > > > > > > you
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > share
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > users can accomplish the same with the
> >> current
> >> > > > > > state
> >> > > > > > > of
> >> > > > > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > technology?
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Use case description:
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As a user, I need - using java api -
> >> add
> >> > > > thousands
> >> > > > > > > of
> >> > > > > > > > > > > objects
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > to
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > working memory and orchestrate 4 or 5
> >> different
> >> > > > > > > > ruleflow
> >> > > > > > > > > > > groups
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > and,
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at the end of the execution, access the
> >> working
> >> > > > > > > memory
> >> > > > > > > > > and
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > iterate
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > over the working memory content.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alex
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 15, 2025 at 4:32 AM Toshiya
> >> > > > Kobayashi
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <toshiyakobaya...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah, thanks,
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This one:
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> https://lists.apache.org/thread/t3o842mbj03c57cg5yw3tmo25qf2br1t
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 15, 2025 at 6:15 PM
> >> Enrique
> >> > > > Gonzalez
> >> > > > > > > > > Martinez <
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > elguard...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi toshiya
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Search in *this* list drop legacy
> >> runtime
> >> > > > in
> >> > > > > > > > > workflow. It
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > is
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > a
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > proposal.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > El mié, 15 ene 2025, 9:47, Toshiya
> >> > > > Kobayashi <
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toshiyakobaya...@gmail.com>
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escribió:
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, guys.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I searched
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > https://groups.google.com/g/kogito-development
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ,
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but I
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cannot
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > find the discussion about kjar.
> >> Anyway,
> >> > > > > > Kogito
> >> > > > > > > > > hasn't
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > supported kjar
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the beginning, so it's a very old
> >> story.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having said that, options seem to
> >> be:
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A) Create a small subset of bpmn
> >> parser
> >> > > > and
> >> > > > > > > > engine
> >> > > > > > > > > > > (apart
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > from
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kogito
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bpmn code base), which aims at
> >> only
> >> > > > ruleflow
> >> > > > > > > > > (Start,
> >> > > > > > > > > > > End,
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Rule,
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gateway).
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pros: Users can use the
> >> existing bpmn
> >> > > > > > editor
> >> > > > > > > to
> >> > > > > > > > > > > author
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ruleflow
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bpmn
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > files.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No need for a migration
> >> tool.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cons: It will likely have some
> >> > > > duplication
> >> > > > > > > with
> >> > > > > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > kogito
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bpmn
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > code
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > base.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > B) Create a new feature to support
> >> > > > ruleflow.
> >> > > > > > > e.g.
> >> > > > > > > > > only
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > changing
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ruleflow-group with/without
> >> conditions.
> >> > > > It
> >> > > > > > may
> >> > > > > > > or
> >> > > > > > > > > may
> >> > > > > > > > > > > not
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > be
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like .rf
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > file
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Note: This option's pros and
> >> cons are
> >> > > > > > > > > ambiguous as
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > details
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yet defined
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pros: The implementation may be
> >> smaller
> >> > > > > > than
> >> > > > > > > > bpmn
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cons: Developing a migration
> >> tool would
> >> > > > > > > require
> >> > > > > > > > > some
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > effort.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (or no
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > migration tool)
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Developing an authoring
> >> UI tool
> >> > > > would
> >> > > > > > > > > require
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > some
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > effort.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (or no
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > authoring tool)
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > C) Just guide how to migrate
> >> ruleflow to
> >> > > > drl
> >> > > > > > > and
> >> > > > > > > > > java
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > code.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pros: No additional development
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cons: Probably it's not
> >> possible to
> >> > > > create
> >> > > > > > a
> >> > > > > > > > > > > migration
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > tool.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It may
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > require a large effort if a user
> >> has
> >> > > > lots of
> >> > > > > > > > > ruleflows
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any thoughts?
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toshiya
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 6:13 PM
> >> Enrique
> >> > > > > > > Gonzalez
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > Martinez <
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > elguard...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jason,
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the moment we dropped
> >> support for
> >> > > > legacy
> >> > > > > > > > > runtime
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > kjar
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > is
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not a
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > supported
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > scenario in workflow.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > El vie, 10 ene 2025, 17:24,
> >> Jason
> >> > > > Porter
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <jpor...@ibm.com.invalid>
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escribió:
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think however this ends up
> >> being
> >> > > > > > decided
> >> > > > > > > by
> >> > > > > > > > > this
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > list, we
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > should
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > post a
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> conclusion/example/summary/something
> >> > > > to
> >> > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > us...@kie.apache.org
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > us...@kie.apache.org> list
> >> so anyone
> >> > > > > > > search
> >> > > > > > > > > that
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > list
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > can
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > see
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Somewhat related to that, do
> >> we want
> >> > > > to
> >> > > > > > try
> >> > > > > > > > to
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > migrate
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > people
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Google Groups list to the
> >> users list
> >> > > > now
> >> > > > > > > that
> >> > > > > > > > > > > 10.0.0
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > is
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > released?
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jason Porter
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Software Engineer
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He/Him/His
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IBM
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Alex Porcelli <
> >> > > > porce...@apache.org
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, January 10,
> >> 2025 at
> >> > > > 01:41
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: dev@kie.apache.org <
> >> > > > > > dev@kie.apache.org
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re:
> >> [DISCUSSION]
> >> > > > > > > ruleflow
> >> > > > > > > > > kjar
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > use
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > case
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you, Toshiya, for
> >> bringing
> >> > > > this up
> >> > > > > > to
> >> > > > > > > > ML.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For context, I’d like to
> >> remember
> >> > > > that
> >> > > > > > > there
> >> > > > > > > > > are no
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Drools
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jBPM;
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > both
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are components of Apache KIE.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As of today, Apache KIE 10
> >> supports
> >> > > > kjar;
> >> > > > > > > > > Toshiya's
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > example
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > proves
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, this could be
> >> considered a
> >> > > > > > bug,
> >> > > > > > > > not
> >> > > > > > > > > a
> >> > > > > > > > > > > new
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > use
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > case.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enrique, regarding parity
> >> between
> >> > > > > > runtimes,
> >> > > > > > > > > it’s
> >> > > > > > > > > > > not
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > necessary to
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > provide
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same level of feature
> >> support
> >> > > > for all
> >> > > > > > > of
> >> > > > > > > > > them,
> >> > > > > > > > > > > so
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > scope
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rule
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > flow could be narrowed.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I believe we can’t do is
> >> be
> >> > > > > > > > dysfunctional
> >> > > > > > > > > and
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > force
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > drops of
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > major
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > features after a major release
> >> > > > without a
> >> > > > > > > > proper
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > heads-up
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or an
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > alternative
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > path.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alex
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at
> >> 12:10 AM
> >> > > > Enrique
> >> > > > > > > > > Gonzalez
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Martinez
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > egonza...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi toshiya
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kjar is not supported in
> >> workflow
> >> > > > as
> >> > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > main
> >> > > > > > > > > > > focus
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > is
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > codegen.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Supporting in memory
> >> compilation
> >> > > > would
> >> > > > > > > lead
> >> > > > > > > > > us to
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > support two
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > different
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > runtimes and integration
> >> with
> >> > > > drools.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At this point it might be
> >> working
> >> > > > > > because
> >> > > > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > legacy
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > runtime is
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > still
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but any attempt to support
> >> this in
> >> > > > > > kogito
> >> > > > > > > > > will
> >> > > > > > > > > > > get
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pushed back
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > removing thr old runtime
> >> therefore
> >> > > > kjar
> >> > > > > > > > wont
> >> > > > > > > > > > > work.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > There
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > several
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > reasons for it. From how
> >> big the
> >> > > > effort
> >> > > > > > > > > would be
> >> > > > > > > > > > > to
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > parity
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > features
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > both
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > runtimes.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So the answer is no. We
> >> should not.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > El vie, 10 ene 2025, 4:20,
> >> Toshiya
> >> > > > > > > > Kobayashi
> >> > > > > > > > > <
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toshiyakobaya...@gmail.com
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escribió:
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello,
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Drools 8, in other
> >> words,
> >> > > > since
> >> > > > > > > > jBPM
> >> > > > > > > > > was
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > moved
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > into
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kogito,
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ruleflow (drl + bpmn)
> >> kjar use
> >> > > > case
> >> > > > > > has
> >> > > > > > > > > been
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > dropped,
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kogito
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doesn't support kjar. A
> >> user is
> >> > > > > > facing
> >> > > > > > > a
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > migration
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > problem (
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> https://kie.zulipchat.com/#narrow/channel/232677-drools/topic/Errors.20when.20moving.20from.20last.20Drools.207.20release.20to.20drools.208
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > )
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The combinations may sound
> >> > > > confusing.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - drl + bpmn in kogito
> >> service is
> >> > > > > > > > > supported.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > (See
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > process-quarkus-example
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in
> >> incubator-kie-kogito-examples)
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - drl in kjar is
> >> supported (See
> >> > > > > > > > > > > kie-maven-plugin
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > in
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > incubator-kie-drools)
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - drl + bpmn in kjar is
> >> the
> >> > > > topic of
> >> > > > > > > this
> >> > > > > > > > > > > thread
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I created an example with
> >> KIE
> >> > > > 10.0.0
> >> > > > > > +
> >> > > > > > > > drl
> >> > > > > > > > > +
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > bpmn +
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kjar.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> https://github.com/tkobayas/kiegroup-examples/tree/master/Ex-ruleflow-10.0.0
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Adding
> >> org.kie.kogito:jbpm-bpmn2
> >> > > > > > > > > dependency)
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ```
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mvn clean install
> >> -DskipTests
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mvn test
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ```
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems to work fine so
> >> far.
> >> > > > (It has
> >> > > > > > > an
> >> > > > > > > > > issue
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > with
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "import"
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > handling,
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I worked around it using
> >> FQCN.
> >> > > > It's
> >> > > > > > > > another
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > story...)
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having said that, shall we
> >> > > > revitalize
> >> > > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > ruleflow
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kjar use
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > case?
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think of these points:
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Confirm the supported
> >> scope :
> >> > > > No
> >> > > > > > > > > > > persistence.
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Limited
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nodes
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Start,
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > End,
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rule, Gateway?)
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Consult jbpm developers
> >> > > > because
> >> > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > new
> >> > > > > > > > > jbpm
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > has
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > been
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > targeted
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kogito service use cases
> >> (=
> >> > > > requires
> >> > > > > > > > > quarkus or
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > springboot,
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > depends
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > codegen. Am I correct?).
> >> Any
> >> > > > caveats
> >> > > > > > to
> >> > > > > > > > > support
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > kjar?
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. Create test cases in
> >> > > > > > > kogito-runtimes?
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Especially, about 2... Any
> >> > > > concern
> >> > > > > > > about
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > supporting
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kjar with
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jbpm
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (=
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> org.kie.kogito:jbpm-bpmn2)?
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers,
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toshiya
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >> > > > > > > dev-unsubscr...@kie.apache.org
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> >> > > > > > > > dev-h...@kie.apache.org
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Saludos, Enrique González Martínez :)
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >> > > > dev-unsubscr...@kie.apache.org
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> >> > > > > > dev-h...@kie.apache.org
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >> > > > dev-unsubscr...@kie.apache.org
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> >> > > > dev-h...@kie.apache.org
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >> dev-unsubscr...@kie.apache.org
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> >> dev-h...@kie.apache.org
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > --
> >> > > > > > > > > Saludos, Enrique González Martínez :)
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@kie.apache.org
> >> > > > > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@kie.apache.org
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@kie.apache.org
> >> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@kie.apache.org
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@kie.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@kie.apache.org
> >>
> >>
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