This one from RuleUnit https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-drools/blob/main/drools-ruleunits/drools-ruleunits-api/src/main/java/org/drools/ruleunits/api/DataStore.java#L25
On Mon, Mar 3, 2025 at 1:17 PM Enrique Gonzalez Martinez <elguard...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Alex, just some question. BPMN DataStores has never been supported in > jBPM. What data stores are you referring to ? > > El lun, 3 mar 2025, 19:12, Alex Porcelli <a...@porcelli.me> escribió: > > > Besides the concern on not giving users a moving forward path without > > forcing them to a major rewrite.... > > > > Sure, you can expect a PR in the near future with the necessary > > adjustments; however, to fix the identified issues, you also need to > > revisit other components like the editor. > > > > Example of identified limitations: can't reuse DataStore, so forces > > users to iterate over collections and re-construct - on every > > interaction - the data to be processed by the Rule Engine. There's > > also a lack of ability to invoke queries or, even more powerfully, > > interact directly with the rule unit object. > > > > To your point, Enrique: I don't expect it to change the architecture; > > however, integration points must be revisited (including code-gen > > aspects). > > > > On Mon, Mar 3, 2025 at 2:57 AM Enrique Gonzalez Martinez > > <elguard...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > What are the gaps identified in workflow rule node execution ? If they > > are > > > simple enough either Mark or Alex can make simple PR as they are > > > contributors and identified better the problem. (It seems it wont change > > > the arch just node impl) > > > > > > El lun, 3 mar 2025, 8:17, Toshiya Kobayashi <toshiyakobaya...@gmail.com> > > > escribió: > > > > > > > Thanks guys, > > > > > > > > > 1 - Immediate Fix: Resolve the issue with the legacy API as initially > > > > > identified. While deprecation of the old system is acceptable for > > > > > stateful workflow scenarios, Drools users depend on it for rule > > > > > orchestration. Implementing this fix would serve as a temporary > > > > > solution with a limited lifespan. > > > > > > > > Alex, just to confirm, it means the following, right? : > > > > > > > > - Mark the legacy runtime as deprecated. > > > > > > > > - The legacy runtime will be removed as discussed in > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/t3o842mbj03c57cg5yw3tmo25qf2br1t , > > but the > > > > removal will wait for "2 - Long-Term Enhancement: Enhance the current > > > > Business Rule Task to ensure seamless integration with the Rule > > Engine" to > > > > be done. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Toshiya > > > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 1, 2025 at 12:01 AM Mark Proctor <mdproc...@apache.org> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 at 03:06, Alex Porcelli <a...@porcelli.me> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > As Toshiya has highlighted, not only does the legacy API fail for > > > > > > traditional rule orchestration, but the new "Kogito way" also does > > not > > > > > > provide the minimal functionality needed to orchestrate rules > > > > > > properly. Unfortunately, the current Business Rule Task is almost > > > > > > useless without the proper support of Drools data structures > > required > > > > > > by RuleUnits. > > > > > > > > > > > > Consequently, the current state of the codebase leaves the broader > > > > > > concept of rule orchestration unaddressed. This oversight presents > > a > > > > > > significant challenge for Drools users transitioning to the 10 > > series, > > > > > > potentially alienating a large user base. > > > > > > > > > > > > To address these issues, I propose the following steps: > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 - Immediate Fix: Resolve the issue with the legacy API as > > initially > > > > > > identified. While deprecation of the old system is acceptable for > > > > > > stateful workflow scenarios, Drools users depend on it for rule > > > > > > orchestration. Implementing this fix would serve as a temporary > > > > > > solution with a limited lifespan. > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2 - Long-Term Enhancement: Enhance the current Business Rule Task > > to > > > > > > ensure seamless integration with the Rule Engine. This involves > > > > > > refining the interaction points surrounding the rule engine to > > provide > > > > > > a robust and reliable orchestration mechanism. > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's worth noting that while alternatives like manually > > orchestrated > > > > > > Rule Units using Java code or pure DRL-based approaches exist, > > they do > > > > > > not offer the intuitive graphical visualization of rule > > orchestration > > > > > > that Drools historically provided. Maintaining this visual aspect > > is > > > > > > crucial for user experience and system transparency. > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree, this is functionality that a lot of users liked, none of > > this > > > > > should be too difficult to achieve. > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 27, 2025 at 1:32 AM Toshiya Kobayashi > > > > > > <toshiyakobaya...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I talked with Alex that the current KIE 10 supported approach > > "bpmn2 > > > > > > > RuleSetNode with kogito-codegen + RuleUnit" doesn't cover all > > > > migration > > > > > > use > > > > > > > cases of drools 7 ruleflow. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So I'd like to confirm possible directions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > A) Create a small subset of bpmn parser and engine (apart from > > the > > > > > kogito > > > > > > > bpmn code base), which aims at only ruleflow (Start, End, Rule, > > > > > Gateway). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pros: Users can use the existing bpmn editor to author ruleflow > > > > bpmn > > > > > > > files. > > > > > > > No need for a migration tool. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cons: It will likely have some duplication with the kogito bpmn > > > > code > > > > > > base. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > B) Create a new feature to support ruleflow. e.g. only changing > > > > > > > ruleflow-group with/without conditions. It may or may not be > > like .rf > > > > > > file > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Note: This option's pros and cons are ambiguous as the > > details > > > > are > > > > > > not > > > > > > > yet defined > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pros: The implementation may be smaller than bpmn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cons: Developing a migration tool would require some effort. > > (or no > > > > > > > migration tool) > > > > > > > Developing an authoring UI tool would require some > > effort. > > > > (or > > > > > no > > > > > > > authoring tool) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > C) Just guide how to migrate ruleflow to drl and java code. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pros: No additional development > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cons: Probably it's not possible to create a migration tool. > > It may > > > > > > > require a large effort if a user has lots of ruleflows > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feel free to share your thoughts or preference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Personally, I like option C for the short-term and option A for > > the > > > > > > > mid-term. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is not a proposal. I just want to know the preference in > > this > > > > dev > > > > > > list > > > > > > > members and file a GH issue. Even if option A or B is preferred, > > I > > > > (or > > > > > > we) > > > > > > > may not have time to work on that right now. But it would be > > useful > > > > to > > > > > > > guide community users with the direction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Toshiya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 28, 2025 at 2:41 PM Toshiya Kobayashi < > > > > > > > toshiyakobaya...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Alex, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the recent posts in this thread, I see that you are > > confirming > > > > the > > > > > > > > steps to run a process with kogito codegen in KIE 10. You seem > > to > > > > be > > > > > > > > exploring a migration guidance for community users who want to > > use > > > > a > > > > > > > > ruleflow in KIE 10, correct? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So it will be another option like the ones I posted, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A) Create a small subset of bpmn parser and engine (apart > > from > > > > the > > > > > > > > kogito bpmn code base), which aims at only ruleflow (Start, > > End, > > > > > Rule, > > > > > > > > Gateway). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > B) Create a new feature to support ruleflow. e.g. only > > changing > > > > > > > > ruleflow-group with/without conditions. It may or may not be > > like > > > > .rf > > > > > > file > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > C) Just guide how to migrate ruleflow to drl and java code. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I may be missing a point. I just wanted to proceed with the > > > > > discussion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Toshiya > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2025 at 12:26 AM Alex Porcelli < > > a...@porcelli.me> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> I managed to figure out... for those that are also unsure how > > to > > > > > start > > > > > > > >> a process using Java API... here's (the bpmn file has an ID > > which > > > > > > > >> value is "demo1"): > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> import java.util.HashMap; > > > > > > > >> import java.util.Map; > > > > > > > >> import org.kie.kogito.Model; > > > > > > > >> import jakarta.enterprise.context.ApplicationScoped; > > > > > > > >> import jakarta.inject.Inject; > > > > > > > >> import jakarta.inject.Named; > > > > > > > >> import org.kie.kogito.process.Process; > > > > > > > >> import org.kie.kogito.process.ProcessInstance; > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> @ApplicationScoped > > > > > > > >> public class MyCustomService { > > > > > > > >> @Inject > > > > > > > >> @Named("demo1") > > > > > > > >> Process<? extends Model> myProcess; > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> public String startMyProcess() { > > > > > > > >> Model m = myProcess.createModel(); > > > > > > > >> Map<String, Object> parameters = new HashMap<>(); > > > > > > > >> parameters.put("name", "Alex"); > > > > > > > >> m.fromMap(parameters); > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> ProcessInstance<?> processInstance = > > > > > > myProcess.createInstance(m); > > > > > > > >> processInstance.start(); > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Model result = (Model) processInstance.variables(); > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> return result.toMap().get("message").toString(); > > > > > > > >> } > > > > > > > >> } > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 3:30 PM Alex Porcelli < > > a...@porcelli.me> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Enrique, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > I'm not using any IDE, maven can't compile sources that have > > > > > > > >> > references to classes defined in generated-sources. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > I might be missing something, I'd appreciate it if you could > > > > > share a > > > > > > > >> > project with such a config that I could compile with just > > maven > > > > > cli. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 2:59 PM Enrique Gonzalez Martinez > > > > > > > >> > <elguard...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > The generated sources should be incorporated by your ide > > in > > > > the > > > > > > source > > > > > > > >> > > paths like maven is doing. It works in eclipse at least. I > > > > dont > > > > > > know > > > > > > > >> other > > > > > > > >> > > ide. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > El mar, 21 ene 2025, 20:56, Alex Porcelli < > > a...@porcelli.me> > > > > > > > >> escribió: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > Enrique, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > To code-gen process Apache KIE resources I need to > > execute > > > > one > > > > > > of > > > > > > > >> the > > > > > > > >> > > > following commands: mvn quarkus:build, mvn > > quarkus:dev, mvn > > > > > > > >> package. > > > > > > > >> > > > The generated sources are output to the > > > > > target/generated-sources > > > > > > > >> > > > directory. However, I’ve noticed that these generated > > > > sources > > > > > > are > > > > > > > >> not > > > > > > > >> > > > accessible from the src/main folder. This is making it > > > > > > difficult to > > > > > > > >> > > > integrate the generated code into the main project > > workflow. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > Am I missing something? > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > - > > > > > > > >> > > > Alex > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 12:57 PM Enrique Gonzalez > > Martinez > > > > > > > >> > > > <elguard...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > I don't see why. If you want to create a workflow. > > > > > > > >> > > > > 1 define it > > > > > > > >> > > > > 2 codegen > > > > > > > >> > > > > 3 compile it > > > > > > > >> > > > > 4 runtime > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > There is no cycle > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > El mar, 21 ene 2025, 18:54, Alex Porcelli < > > > > a...@porcelli.me > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> escribió: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > If code-gen is required, don’t we have a chicken-egg > > > > > > problem? > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > How users can use an API that will be generated in > > the > > > > > > future? > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > - > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 12:47 PM Enrique Gonzalez > > > > > Martinez < > > > > > > > >> > > > > > elguard...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > The kie api is a library inside the runtimes > > project > > > > and > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> > > > > > implementation > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > of the start is in jbpm-flow project. Related to > > the > > > > > > process > > > > > > > >> > > > definition > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > requires codegen. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > El mar, 21 ene 2025, 18:15, Alex Porcelli < > > > > > > a...@porcelli.me> > > > > > > > >> > > > escribió: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thank you for the reference, Enrique. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > But how is this API supposed to work? I mean… > > it’s > > > > > part > > > > > > of > > > > > > > >> the > > > > > > > >> > > > codegen > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > (during build) that the Model class is > > generated for > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> current > > > > > > > >> > > > > > project. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 10:06 AM Enrique > > Gonzalez > > > > > > Martinez < > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > elguard...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > This is an example... Even if you are a > > listener > > > > > this > > > > > > > >> should be > > > > > > > >> > > > the > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > endpoint. For some reason internal api and > > exposed > > > > > api > > > > > > > >> became > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > entangled at some point so even if you go low > > code > > > > > if > > > > > > you > > > > > > > >> want > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > persistence it should be like this. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/kiegroup/kogito-runtimes/blob/main/jbpm/jbpm-tests/src/test/java/org/jbpm/bpmn2/ActivityTest.java#L233-L234 > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > El mar, 21 ene 2025 a las 10:10, Toshiya > > Kobayashi > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > (<toshiyakobaya...@gmail.com>) escribió: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Hi Enrique, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Dont use kie session start workflow. > > Kie-api > > > > > > should > > > > > > > >> be used > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > instead. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > My example is a plain java in-memory > > ruleflow > > > > use > > > > > > case > > > > > > > >> (not a > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > persistent > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > process nor a kogito service). > > > > > > ksession.startProcess() > > > > > > > >> is the > > > > > > > >> > > > only > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > way > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > know to start a ruleflow. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Could you let me know the right method > > which you > > > > > > > >> mentioned as > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > "Kie-api > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > should be used instead" ? > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Toshiya > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 2:52 PM Enrique > > Gonzalez > > > > > > > >> Martinez < > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > elguard...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Dont use kie session start workflow. > > Kie-api > > > > > > should > > > > > > > >> be used > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > instead. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > El mar, 21 ene 2025, 3:54, Toshiya > > Kobayashi < > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > toshiyakobaya...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > escribió: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > but my concern is that it feels that > > we > > > > are > > > > > > back > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > almost 20 years ago, just before we > > > > > introduce > > > > > > > >> RulesFlow. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it's true. This is the most basic > > > > > solution > > > > > > and > > > > > > > >> the > > > > > > > >> > > > only > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > supported > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > solution as of 10.0.0 + kjar. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > would it be possible to point an > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > example (or unit test) how to start a > > > > > workflow > > > > > > > >> using > > > > > > > >> > > > plain > > > > > > > >> > > > > > java > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > api? > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > kSession.startProcess(processId) starts > > a > > > > bpmn > > > > > > > >> process. > > > > > > > >> > > > It's > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > supported in > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > 7.74.0.Final. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/tkobayas/kiegroup-examples/blob/master/Ex-ruleflow-migration/Ex-ruleflow-bpmn-7.74/src/main/java/com/sample/DroolsTest.java#L21 > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > It also works in 10.0.0, but it depends > > on a > > > > > > legacy > > > > > > > >> runtime > > > > > > > >> > > > > > which > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > will be > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > removed as Enrique mentioned. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/tkobayas/kiegroup-examples/blob/master/Ex-ruleflow-10.0.0/src/main/java/com/sample/DroolsTest.java#L17 > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > However, I guess Alex is asking for > > > > something > > > > > > > >> different... > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Please > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > let me > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > know the requirements in detail. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Toshiya > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 11:06 PM Alex > > > > > Porcelli < > > > > > > > >> > > > > > a...@porcelli.me > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Another somewhat related question: > > would > > > > it > > > > > be > > > > > > > >> possible > > > > > > > >> > > > to > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > point > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > example (or unit test) how to start a > > > > > workflow > > > > > > > >> using > > > > > > > >> > > > plain > > > > > > > >> > > > > > java > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > api? > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 8:53 AM > > Enrique > > > > > > Gonzalez > > > > > > > >> Martinez > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > <elguard...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Given the current native > > implementation, > > > > > it > > > > > > is > > > > > > > >> not > > > > > > > >> > > > > > possible. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You would need to rework the rule > > node > > > > in > > > > > > > >> workflow > > > > > > > >> > > > > > probably. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > El lun, 20 ene 2025, 14:50, Alex > > > > Porcelli > > > > > < > > > > > > > >> > > > > > a...@porcelli.me> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > escribió: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enrique, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My question still.. How is it > > possible > > > > > to > > > > > > > >> load a > > > > > > > >> > > > bunch of > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > data > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > into > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Drools and orchestrate multiple > > groups > > > > > of > > > > > > > >> rules > > > > > > > >> > > > without > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > having > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > iterate over and over again on > > those > > > > > > loads of > > > > > > > >> data. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 16, 2025 at 11:49 AM > > > > Enrique > > > > > > > >> Gonzalez > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Martinez > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <elguard...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Alex, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The only reason working memory > > > > exists > > > > > in > > > > > > > >> BPMN is > > > > > > > >> > > > to be > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > used > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > conditional nodes which does not > > > > make > > > > > > much > > > > > > > >> sense > > > > > > > >> > > > IMO. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > (the > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > replacement > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for java conditional was > > already on > > > > > the > > > > > > way) > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This was dropped at some point > > in > > > > > kogito > > > > > > > >> (don't > > > > > > > >> > > > know > > > > > > > >> > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > reasons > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > why) > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but makes sense as working > > memory > > > > > access > > > > > > > >> does not > > > > > > > >> > > > make > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > sense > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > workflow engine. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How to orchestrate something > > like > > > > you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > >> > > > referring is > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > more > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > rule > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > engine > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > side. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > El jue, 16 ene 2025 a las 17:05, > > > > Tibor > > > > > > > >> Zimányi (< > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > tzima...@apache.org > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >) > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escribió: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Alex, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think the orchestration > > could be > > > > > > done > > > > > > > >> with rule > > > > > > > >> > > > > > units > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > instead > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > using a > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BPMN process to orchestrate > > the > > > > rule > > > > > > > >> execution. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > However > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > maybe I > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > missing > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > some context about rule units > > and > > > > I > > > > > am > > > > > > > >> wrong. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tibor > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dňa št 16. 1. 2025, 15:40 Alex > > > > > > Porcelli < > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > porce...@apache.org> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > napísal(a): > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you Toshiya for the > > > > > reference. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me step back ignoring > > kjar > > > > and > > > > > > > >> etc... and > > > > > > > >> > > > ask: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > could > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > share > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > users can accomplish the > > same > > > > with > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> current > > > > > > > >> > > > > > state > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > of > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > technology? > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Use case description: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As a user, I need - using > > java > > > > > api - > > > > > > > >> add > > > > > > > >> > > > thousands > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > of > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > objects > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > working memory and > > orchestrate 4 > > > > > or > > > > > > 5 > > > > > > > >> different > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ruleflow > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > groups > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > and, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at the end of the execution, > > > > > access > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> working > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > memory > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > iterate > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > over the working memory > > content. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 15, 2025 at > > 4:32 AM > > > > > > Toshiya > > > > > > > >> > > > Kobayashi > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <toshiyakobaya...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ah, thanks, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This one: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/t3o842mbj03c57cg5yw3tmo25qf2br1t > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 15, 2025 at > > > > 6:15 PM > > > > > > > >> Enrique > > > > > > > >> > > > Gonzalez > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Martinez < > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > elguard...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi toshiya > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Search in *this* list > > drop > > > > > > legacy > > > > > > > >> runtime > > > > > > > >> > > > in > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > workflow. It > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > proposal. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > El mié, 15 ene 2025, > > 9:47, > > > > > > Toshiya > > > > > > > >> > > > Kobayashi < > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toshiyakobaya...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escribió: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, guys. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I searched > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://groups.google.com/g/kogito-development > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but I > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cannot > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > find the discussion > > about > > > > > > kjar. > > > > > > > >> Anyway, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Kogito > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > hasn't > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > supported kjar > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the beginning, so > > it's a > > > > > very > > > > > > old > > > > > > > >> story. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Having said that, > > options > > > > > > seem to > > > > > > > >> be: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A) Create a small > > subset > > > > of > > > > > > bpmn > > > > > > > >> parser > > > > > > > >> > > > and > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > engine > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > (apart > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kogito > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bpmn code base), which > > > > aims > > > > > at > > > > > > > >> only > > > > > > > >> > > > ruleflow > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > (Start, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > End, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Rule, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gateway). > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pros: Users can use > > the > > > > > > > >> existing bpmn > > > > > > > >> > > > > > editor > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > to > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > author > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ruleflow > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bpmn > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > files. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No need for a > > > > > > migration > > > > > > > >> tool. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cons: It will likely > > > > have > > > > > > some > > > > > > > >> > > > duplication > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > with > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > kogito > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bpmn > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > code > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > base. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > B) Create a new > > feature to > > > > > > support > > > > > > > >> > > > ruleflow. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > e.g. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > changing > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ruleflow-group > > > > with/without > > > > > > > >> conditions. > > > > > > > >> > > > It > > > > > > > >> > > > > > may > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > or > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like .rf > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > file > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Note: This > > option's > > > > pros > > > > > > and > > > > > > > >> cons are > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ambiguous as > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > details > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yet defined > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pros: The > > implementation > > > > > > may be > > > > > > > >> smaller > > > > > > > >> > > > > > than > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > bpmn > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cons: Developing a > > > > > migration > > > > > > > >> tool would > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > require > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > effort. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (or no > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > migration tool) > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Developing an > > > > > > authoring > > > > > > > >> UI tool > > > > > > > >> > > > would > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > require > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > effort. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (or no > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > authoring tool) > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > C) Just guide how to > > > > migrate > > > > > > > >> ruleflow to > > > > > > > >> > > > drl > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > and > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > java > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > code. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pros: No additional > > > > > > development > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cons: Probably it's > > not > > > > > > > >> possible to > > > > > > > >> > > > create > > > > > > > >> > > > > > a > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > migration > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > tool. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It may > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > require a large > > effort if > > > > a > > > > > > user > > > > > > > >> has > > > > > > > >> > > > lots of > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ruleflows > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toshiya > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 > > at > > > > > > 6:13 PM > > > > > > > >> Enrique > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Gonzalez > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Martinez < > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > elguard...@gmail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jason, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At the moment we > > dropped > > > > > > > >> support for > > > > > > > >> > > > legacy > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > runtime > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > kjar > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not a > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > supported > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > scenario in > > workflow. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > El vie, 10 ene 2025, > > > > > 17:24, > > > > > > > >> Jason > > > > > > > >> > > > Porter > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <jpor...@ibm.com.invalid> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escribió: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think however > > this > > > > > ends > > > > > > up > > > > > > > >> being > > > > > > > >> > > > > > decided > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > by > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > list, we > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > post a > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> conclusion/example/summary/something > > > > > > > >> > > > to > > > > > > > >> > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > us...@kie.apache.org > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > us...@kie.apache.org> > > > > > > list > > > > > > > >> so anyone > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > search > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > list > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > see > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > results. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Somewhat related > > to > > > > > that, > > > > > > do > > > > > > > >> we want > > > > > > > >> > > > to > > > > > > > >> > > > > > try > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > migrate > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Google Groups > > list to > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> users list > > > > > > > >> > > > now > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > that > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > 10.0.0 > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > released? > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jason Porter > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Software Engineer > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He/Him/His > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IBM > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Alex > > Porcelli < > > > > > > > >> > > > porce...@apache.org > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Friday, > > January > > > > > 10, > > > > > > > >> 2025 at > > > > > > > >> > > > 01:41 > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: > > > > dev@kie.apache.org > > > > > < > > > > > > > >> > > > > > dev@kie.apache.org > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: > > [EXTERNAL] > > > > Re: > > > > > > > >> [DISCUSSION] > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > ruleflow > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > kjar > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > case > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > Toshiya, > > > > for > > > > > > > >> bringing > > > > > > > >> > > > this up > > > > > > > >> > > > > > to > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ML. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For context, I’d > > like > > > > to > > > > > > > >> remember > > > > > > > >> > > > that > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > there > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > are no > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Drools > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > jBPM; > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > both > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are components of > > > > Apache > > > > > > KIE. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As of today, > > Apache > > > > KIE > > > > > 10 > > > > > > > >> supports > > > > > > > >> > > > kjar; > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Toshiya's > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > example > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > proves > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Therefore, this > > could > > > > be > > > > > > > >> considered a > > > > > > > >> > > > > > bug, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > new > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > use > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > case. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Enrique, regarding > > > > > parity > > > > > > > >> between > > > > > > > >> > > > > > runtimes, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > it’s > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > necessary to > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > provide > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the same level of > > > > > feature > > > > > > > >> support > > > > > > > >> > > > for all > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > of > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > them, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > scope > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rule > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > flow could be > > > > narrowed. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I believe we > > > > can’t > > > > > > do is > > > > > > > >> be > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > dysfunctional > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > force > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > drops of > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > major > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > features after a > > major > > > > > > release > > > > > > > >> > > > without a > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > proper > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > heads-up > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or an > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > alternative > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > path. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 10, > > 2025 > > > > at > > > > > > > >> 12:10 AM > > > > > > > >> > > > Enrique > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Gonzalez > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Martinez > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > egonza...@apache.org> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi toshiya > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kjar is not > > > > supported > > > > > in > > > > > > > >> workflow > > > > > > > >> > > > as > > > > > > > >> > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > main > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > focus > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > codegen. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Supporting in > > memory > > > > > > > >> compilation > > > > > > > >> > > > would > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > lead > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > us to > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > support two > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > runtimes and > > > > > integration > > > > > > > >> with > > > > > > > >> > > > drools. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At this point it > > > > might > > > > > > be > > > > > > > >> working > > > > > > > >> > > > > > because > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > legacy > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > runtime is > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but any attempt > > to > > > > > > support > > > > > > > >> this in > > > > > > > >> > > > > > kogito > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pushed back > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > removing thr old > > > > > runtime > > > > > > > >> therefore > > > > > > > >> > > > kjar > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > wont > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > work. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > There > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > several > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > reasons for it. > > From > > > > > how > > > > > > > >> big the > > > > > > > >> > > > effort > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > would be > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > parity > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > features > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > both > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > runtimes. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So the answer > > is no. > > > > > We > > > > > > > >> should not. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > El vie, 10 ene > > 2025, > > > > > > 4:20, > > > > > > > >> Toshiya > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Kobayashi > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toshiyakobaya...@gmail.com > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > escribió: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Drools > > 8, in > > > > > > other > > > > > > > >> words, > > > > > > > >> > > > since > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > jBPM > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > was > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > moved > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > into > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kogito, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ruleflow (drl > > + > > > > > bpmn) > > > > > > > >> kjar use > > > > > > > >> > > > case > > > > > > > >> > > > > > has > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > been > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > dropped, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > because > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kogito > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doesn't > > support > > > > > kjar. > > > > > > A > > > > > > > >> user is > > > > > > > >> > > > > > facing > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > a > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > migration > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > problem ( > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://kie.zulipchat.com/#narrow/channel/232677-drools/topic/Errors.20when.20moving.20from.20last.20Drools.207.20release.20to.20drools.208> 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