I forgot to clarify why I'm remarking this case. If, in future, we have a similar problem like the one we had with Hibernate, rather than evaluating a long and painful code change, I think we should just avoid shipping it and documenting how to add it if the user wants to use the optional addon.
On Mon, Aug 11, 2025 at 3:09 PM Francisco Javier Tirado Sarti < ftira...@redhat.com> wrote: > Hi PJ, > The first condition is true. Persistence is implemented as addons. > Hibernate is used as part of JPA persistence addon, but an user, rather > than using JPA persistence addon, might use MongoDB addon. Therefore > Hibernate usage is clearly optional. > However, second condition is not true, because I think we are include > hibernate jars in our deployment in case the user uses JPA persistence addon > Anyway, this is a theoretical discussion, since the latest version of > Hibernate will be compliant > > On Mon, Aug 11, 2025 at 1:47 PM PJ Fanning <fannin...@apache.org> wrote: > >> If Hibernate is optional and Apache KIE (Incubating) don't ship it in any >> build artifacts (and users need to install it themselves) and hopefully, we >> document this - then Hibernate seems ok to me. >> Although, it would be nice to upgrade to Hibernate 7 because it has >> changed to an Apache license. >> >> >> On 2025/08/07 14:53:11 Francisco Javier Tirado Sarti wrote: >> > Hi, >> > If I understood second bullet properly, then, having into account that >> we >> > have different persistence implementations (the user can use none, one >> of >> > the implemented or one of his own) , I guess the Hibernate ( which is >> just >> > used by the JPA persistence module on Data Index, which, by itself, its >> an >> > optional application of runtimes) licensing issue is not really such big >> > issue, isnt it? >> > >> > On Thu, Aug 7, 2025 at 4:34 PM PJ Fanning <fannin...@apache.org> wrote: >> > >> > > I do not see any exemption to ASF requirements based on a lib having >> the >> > > classpath exception. >> > > https://www.apache.org/legal/resolved.html >> > > >> > > Apologies, I had a couple of typos in my last mail. Here is the >> corrected >> > > version: >> > > >> > > Linking to GPL licensed libs is only ok if >> > > * we don't ship the lib in our convenience binaries - users need to >> > > install it themselves >> > > * the KIE product should be able to work without the GPL lib - ie the >> GPL >> > > license lib usage is optional >> > > >> > > On 2025/08/07 13:11:31 PJ Fanning wrote: >> > > > Linking to GPL licensed libs is only ok if >> > > > * we don't ship the lib in out convenience binaries - users need to >> > > install it themselves >> > > > * the KIE product should work with the GPL lib - ie the GPL license >> lib >> > > usage is optional >> > > > >> > > > On 2025/07/23 14:20:31 Jason Porter wrote: >> > > > > Okay, cool. As long as we’re all okay with the dependencies and >> how >> > > they line up with ASF rules, I’m good. >> > > > > >> > > > > -- >> > > > > Jason Porter >> > > > > Software Engineer >> > > > > He/Him/His >> > > > > >> > > > > IBM >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > From: Alex Porcelli <a...@porcelli.me> >> > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2025 at 08:19 >> > > > > To: dev@kie.apache.org <dev@kie.apache.org> >> > > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [DISCUSSION][FYI] Use the external XML and >> > > JSON Mapper libraries instead our internal copies >> > > > > Those would be GPL with classpath exception, which is aligned >> with JDK >> > > itself. >> > > > > >> > > > > On Wed, Jul 23, 2025 at 10:15 AM Jason Porter >> <jpor...@ibm.com.invalid> >> > > wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but we’re not able to link to GPL >> libraries >> > > either. That was a sticking point with Hibernate. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > -- >> > > > > > Jason Porter >> > > > > > Software Engineer >> > > > > > He/Him/His >> > > > > > >> > > > > > IBM >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > From: Toni Rikkola <rikk...@apache.org> >> > > > > > Date: Wednesday, July 23, 2025 at 01:53 >> > > > > > To: dev@kie.apache.org <dev@kie.apache.org> >> > > > > > Subject: [EXTERNAL] [DISCUSSION][FYI] Use the external XML and >> JSON >> > > Mapper libraries instead our internal copies >> > > > > > Hi, >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Currently we have XML and JSON Mapper libraries in KIE that are >> > > > > > duplicates of identical libraries outside of our code base. The >> > > reason >> > > > > > for forking them in was likely due to an old requirement that we >> > > need to >> > > > > > control all the source at KIE, here at Apache or back at Red >> Hat. At >> > > > > > this moment this is not true, if it ever was. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Problem is these libraries are licensed under GPL and if GPL is >> used >> > > > > > inside an ASL project it consumes everything and the project is >> then >> > > GPL. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > The plan is to remove our fork and use the originals with the >> GPL >> > > > > > linking exception. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Related ticket: >> > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-tools/issues/3196 >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Related dev list thread: >> > > > > > >> https://lists.apache.org/thread/gsj0mxkzwpcgwztz231tr6tnnx9kxd0g >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Linking exception: >> > > > > > https://openjdk.org/legal/gplv2+ce.html >> > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL_linking_exception >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Toni Rikkola >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@kie.apache.org >> > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@kie.apache.org >> > > > > >> > > > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@kie.apache.org >> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@kie.apache.org >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@kie.apache.org >> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@kie.apache.org >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@kie.apache.org >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@kie.apache.org >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@kie.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@kie.apache.org >> >>
