I would have to put in a big caveat here. If you don't already understand something of MVC from a design and implementation point of view you will struggle to figure out which part of the app belongs to which part of MVC when using either Mach-ii or Fusebox. Neither of those provide any sort of clue as to the answers to Sam's question.
Having said that, I would agree that Mach-ii does provide a good framework around which to construct MVC applications. I can't speak for Fusebox because I've not used the latest versions, and I've never tried to use MVC with Fusebox 2 and below. Spike -------------------------------------------- Stephen Milligan Code poet for hire http://www.spike.org.uk Do you cfeclipse? http://cfeclipse.tigris.org >-----Original Message----- >From: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] o.uk] On Behalf Of Salvatore Fusto >Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 6:46 AM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: Re: [ cf-dev ] MVC > >no, of course; >i simply say that some frameworks, expecially mach-ii and its >implicit invocation, help to develop apps follwing MVC, no more. >i've said that a design pattern is a concept. >may be my english is not too clear!! >hope to be clear >regards >salvatore >----- Original Message ----- >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 4:31 PM >Subject: Re: Re: [ cf-dev ] MVC > > >> You're not implying that it's important to use Fusebox or >MACH II if you >want >> to implement design patterns, are you? If so, in the name >of all that is >right >> I must regretfully disagree with every fiber of my being ;) >> >> ~Simon >> >> > >> > hello, >> > i would add my opinion to this interesting discussion. >> > MVC is a design pattern, as many others. It is indipendent from >programming >> > and languages, so you can try to implement an app with >this pattern, >from >> > scratch, with a procedural language too, but if you decide to use a >> > framework such us fusebox or better mach-ii, you will be >lead to follow >an >> > mvc approach as well: in other words, not only is >important to use the >right >> > design pattern for apps, but is more important to use the >right tools >too >> > apply this patter (i could try to implement an app in >COBOL using MVC, >but i >> > do not think to obtain grat resuls). >> > regards >> > salvatore >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Sam Clement" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 2:38 PM >> > Subject: RE: [ cf-dev ] MVC >> > >> > >> > > Thanks Spike. Any recommended books/resources? >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: Stephen Milligan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 4:57 PM >> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > Subject: RE: [ cf-dev ] MVC >> > > >> > > >> > > When you run into a situation where one part of the >system appears to >be >> > > duplicating what another part of the system is doing it >usually means >> > > that you have either not chosen the names for the methods/classes >well, >> > > or you have not modelled the functionality well. In >order to figure >out >> > > where things are wrong I usually boil it down to 'what is the one >thing >> > > that this component is suppposed to be doing'. >> > > >> > > In your case it looks like you want the model to be >responsible for >the >> > > data access for the Users and the ManagerUsers component >to figure out >> > > when to call each method in the model. I would normally >call the data >> > > access component something like UserDAO and give it 4 >starting methods >> > > called createUser(), updateUser(), deleteUser() and >getUser(). Those >> > > methods may be renamed and added to later, but it's >usually a safe >place >> > > to start. >> > > >> > > The controller component would probably have a method called >> > > processUserForm() that would inspect the form scope and >decide what >> > > methods needed to be called in the model to provide >security checking, >> > > data validation, transfer object/bean creation etc. >> > > >> > > The controller is supposed to be deciding what happens in the >> > > application, so you ought to be delegating as much of >the flow control >> > > logic as possible to it. That's why I would only have 1 >entry method >for >> > > the Users CRUD operations. That method would probably call some >private >> > > methods such as >> > > validateUserForm() and checkPermission() which would do >> > > validation/security checking before calling the UserDAO >component to >do >> > > CRUD operations as appropriate. >> > > >> > > Having said that, exactly how the components and methods >are designed >is >> > > very specific to the application at hand, so don't take >the above as >the >> > > gospel on 'how to do it'. >> > > >> > > my 2 cents >> > > >> > > Spike >> > > >> > > -------------------------------------------- >> > > Stephen Milligan >> > > Code poet for hire >> > > http://www.spike.org.uk >> > > >> > > Do you cfeclipse? http://cfeclipse.tigris.org >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >-----Original Message----- >> > > >From: >> > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > o.uk] On Behalf Of Sam Clement >> > > >Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 7:48 AM >> > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > >Subject: [ cf-dev ] MVC >> > > > >> > > >I'm learning about the MVC methodology and looking for good >> > > >resources for beginners. I've found some good stuff from >> > > >Benoit Hediard (blogmx >> > > >code) but would like some more 'theory put into >practice' type stuff. >> > > > >> > > >Currently I'm worried about not de-coupling my controllers >> > > >from the model layer enough. They basically seem to mirror each >other: >> > > > >> > > >Controller: >> > > >ManagerUsers >> > > >add/edit/delete user >> > > > >> > > >Model: >> > > >Users >> > > >Add/edit/delete user (maybe add >authenticate/islogged/isAdmin etc.) >> > > > >> > > >Is it wise to break up the model layer into smaller separate >> > > >cfcomponents or is it best to create larger cfcomponents that >> > > >encapsulate separate business processes? I guess the skill is >> > > >knowing which trade-offs are worth it (overly complex >> > > >components vs. simple de-coupled components but a more complex >> > > >architecture with more dependencies). >> > > > >> > > >Any help appreciated. >> > > > >> > > > _____ >> > > > >> > > >Sam Clement >> > > >ABOVE Studios >> > > >Boutique Design Solutions >> > > > >> > > >32 Clifford Street - Belmont >> > > >Trinidad + Tobago - West Indies >> > > >T: (868) 621 5159 W: abovestudios.com >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >-- >> > > >These lists are syncronised with the CFDeveloper forum at >> > > >http://forum.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ >> > > >Archive: >http://www.mail-archive.com/dev%40lists.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ >> > > > >> > > >CFDeveloper Sponsors and contributors:- >> > > >*Hosting and support provided by CFMXhosting.co.uk* :: >> > > >*ActivePDF provided by activepdf.com* >> > > > *Forums provided by fusetalk.com* :: *ProWorkFlow >> > > >provided by proworkflow.com* >> > > > *Tutorials provided by helmguru.com* :: *Lists >> > > >hosted by gradwell.com* >> > > > >> > > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > These lists are syncronised with the CFDeveloper forum at >> > > http://forum.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ >> > > Archive: >http://www.mail-archive.com/dev%40lists.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ >> > > >> > > CFDeveloper Sponsors and contributors:- >> > > *Hosting and support provided by CFMXhosting.co.uk* :: *ActivePDF >> > > provided by activepdf.com* >> > > *Forums provided by fusetalk.com* :: *ProWorkFlow >provided by >> > > proworkflow.com* >> > > *Tutorials provided by helmguru.com* :: >*Lists hosted by >> > > gradwell.com* >> > > >> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > These lists are syncronised with the CFDeveloper forum at >> > http://forum.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ >> > > Archive: >http://www.mail-archive.com/dev%40lists.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ >> > > >> > > CFDeveloper Sponsors and contributors:- >> > > *Hosting and support provided by CFMXhosting.co.uk* :: *ActivePDF >provided >> > by activepdf.com* >> > > *Forums provided by fusetalk.com* :: *ProWorkFlow >provided by >> > proworkflow.com* >> > > *Tutorials provided by helmguru.com* :: >*Lists hosted by >> > gradwell.com* >> > > >> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > These lists are syncronised with the CFDeveloper forum at >> http://forum.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ >> > Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/dev%40lists.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ >> > >> > CFDeveloper Sponsors and contributors:- >> > *Hosting and support provided by CFMXhosting.co.uk* :: *ActivePDF >provided by >> activepdf.com* >> > *Forums provided by fusetalk.com* :: *ProWorkFlow provided by >> proworkflow.com* >> > *Tutorials provided by helmguru.com* :: *Lists hosted by >> gradwell.com* >> > >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > >> > >> > >> >> ______________________________________ >> >> >> >> >> -- >> These lists are syncronised with the CFDeveloper forum at >http://forum.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ >> Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/dev%40lists.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ >> >> CFDeveloper Sponsors and contributors:- >> *Hosting and support provided by CFMXhosting.co.uk* :: >*ActivePDF provided >by activepdf.com* >> *Forums provided by fusetalk.com* :: *ProWorkFlow provided by >proworkflow.com* >> *Tutorials provided by helmguru.com* :: *Lists hosted by >gradwell.com* >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> > > >-- >These lists are syncronised with the CFDeveloper forum at >http://forum.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ >Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/dev%40lists.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ > >CFDeveloper Sponsors and contributors:- >*Hosting and support provided by CFMXhosting.co.uk* :: >*ActivePDF provided by activepdf.com* > *Forums provided by fusetalk.com* :: *ProWorkFlow >provided by proworkflow.com* > *Tutorials provided by helmguru.com* :: *Lists >hosted by gradwell.com* > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- These lists are syncronised with the CFDeveloper forum at http://forum.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/dev%40lists.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ CFDeveloper Sponsors and contributors:- *Hosting and support provided by CFMXhosting.co.uk* :: *ActivePDF provided by activepdf.com* *Forums provided by fusetalk.com* :: *ProWorkFlow provided by proworkflow.com* *Tutorials provided by helmguru.com* :: *Lists hosted by gradwell.com* To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
