Re: [ cf-dev ] MVC

[Simon Horwith]

implicit invocation may or may not "lead to seperation of model and view" but it's nothing the same as MVC.  Just thought I'd mention that. ~Simon Simon Horwith CTO, eTRILOGY ltd. Member of Team Macromedia Macromedia Certified Master Instructor http://www.cfstandards.org Salvatore Fusto wrote: hello Spike If you don't already understand something of MVC from a design and implementation point of view you will struggle to figure out which part of the app belongs to which part of MVC when using either Mach-ii or Fusebox. Neither of those provide any sort of clue as to the answers to Sam's question. this is clear!! if i don't know oop, i can't use it only writing in java!! Having said that, I would agree that Mach-ii does provide a good framework around which to construct MVC applications. I can't speak for Fusebox because I've not used the latest versions, and I've never tried to use MVC with Fusebox 2 and below. this is what, peraphs not very clearly, i've said: any tools lead to use MVC better then others, but the question is that a programmer has to know MVC in abstract! I mentioned Mach-ii because it is based on implicit invocation architecture, and this leads to separation betwen model and view. best regards salvatore ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Milligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 5:42 PM Subject: RE: Re: [ cf-dev ] MVC I would have to put in a big caveat here. If you don't already understand something of MVC from a design and implementation point of view you will struggle to figure out which part of the app belongs to which part of MVC when using either Mach-ii or Fusebox. Neither of those provide any sort of clue as to the answers to Sam's question. Having said that, I would agree that Mach-ii does provide a good framework around which to construct MVC applications. I can't speak for Fusebox because I've not used the latest versions, and I've never tried to use MVC with Fusebox 2 and below. Spike -------------------------------------------- Stephen Milligan Code poet for hire http://www.spike.org.uk Do you cfeclipse? http://cfeclipse.tigris.org -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] o.uk] On Behalf Of Salvatore Fusto Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 6:46 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: [ cf-dev ] MVC no, of course; i simply say that some frameworks, expecially mach-ii and its implicit invocation, help to develop apps follwing MVC, no more. i've said that a design pattern is a concept. may be my english is not too clear!! hope to be clear regards salvatore ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Re: [ cf-dev ] MVC You're not implying that it's important to use Fusebox or MACH II if you want to implement design patterns, are you? If so, in the name of all that is right I must regretfully disagree with every fiber of my being ;) ~Simon hello, i would add my opinion to this interesting discussion. MVC is a design pattern, as many others. It is indipendent from programming and languages, so you can try to implement an app with this pattern, from scratch, with a procedural language too, but if you decide to use a framework such us fusebox or better mach-ii, you will be lead to follow an mvc approach as well: in other words, not only is important to use the right design pattern for apps, but is more important to use the right tools too apply this patter (i could try to implement an app in COBOL using MVC, but i do not think to obtain grat resuls). regards salvatore ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Clement" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 2:38 PM Subject: RE: [ cf-dev ] MVC Thanks Spike. Any recommended books/resources? -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Milligan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 4:57 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ cf-dev ] MVC When you run into a situation where one part of the system appears to be duplicating what another part of the system is doing it usually means that you have either not chosen the names for the methods/classes well, or you have not modelled the functionality well. In order to figure out where things are wrong I usually boil it down to 'what is the one thing that this component is suppposed to be doing'. In your case it looks like you want the model to be responsible for the data access for the Users and the ManagerUsers component to figure out when to call each method in the model. I would normally call the data access component something like UserDAO and give it 4 starting methods called createUser(), updateUser(), deleteUser() and getUser(). Those methods may be renamed and added to later, but it's usually a safe place to start. The controller component would probably have a method called processUserForm() that would inspect the form scope and decide what methods needed to be called in the model to provide security checking, data validation, transfer object/bean creation etc. The controller is supposed to be deciding what happens in the application, so you ought to be delegating as much of the flow control logic as possible to it. That's why I would only have 1 entry method for the Users CRUD operations. That method would probably call some private methods such as validateUserForm() and checkPermission() which would do validation/security checking before calling the UserDAO component to do CRUD operations as appropriate. Having said that, exactly how the components and methods are designed is very specific to the application at hand, so don't take the above as the gospel on 'how to do it'. my 2 cents Spike -------------------------------------------- Stephen Milligan Code poet for hire http://www.spike.org.uk Do you cfeclipse? http://cfeclipse.tigris.org -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] o.uk] On Behalf Of Sam Clement Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 7:48 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ cf-dev ] MVC I'm learning about the MVC methodology and looking for good resources for beginners. I've found some good stuff from Benoit Hediard (blogmx code) but would like some more 'theory put into practice' type stuff. Currently I'm worried about not de-coupling my controllers >from the model layer enough. They basically seem to mirror each other: Controller: ManagerUsers add/edit/delete user Model: Users Add/edit/delete user (maybe add authenticate/islogged/isAdmin etc.) Is it wise to break up the model layer into smaller separate cfcomponents or is it best to create larger cfcomponents that encapsulate separate business processes? I guess the skill is knowing which trade-offs are worth it (overly complex components vs. simple de-coupled components but a more complex architecture with more dependencies). Any help appreciated. _____ Sam Clement ABOVE Studios Boutique Design Solutions 32 Clifford Street - Belmont Trinidad + Tobago - West Indies T: (868) 621 5159 W: abovestudios.com -- These lists are syncronised with the CFDeveloper forum at http://forum.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/dev%40lists.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ CFDeveloper Sponsors and contributors:- *Hosting and support provided by CFMXhosting.co.uk* :: *ActivePDF provided by activepdf.com* *Forums provided by fusetalk.com* :: *ProWorkFlow provided by proworkflow.com* *Tutorials provided by helmguru.com* :: *Lists hosted by gradwell.com* To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- These lists are syncronised with the CFDeveloper forum at http://forum.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/dev%40lists.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ CFDeveloper Sponsors and contributors:- *Hosting and support provided by CFMXhosting.co.uk* :: *ActivePDF provided by activepdf.com* *Forums provided by fusetalk.com* :: *ProWorkFlow provided by proworkflow.com* *Tutorials provided by helmguru.com* :: *Lists hosted by gradwell.com* To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- These lists are syncronised with the CFDeveloper forum at http://forum.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/dev%40lists.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ CFDeveloper Sponsors and contributors:- *Hosting and support provided by CFMXhosting.co.uk* :: *ActivePDF provided by activepdf.com* *Forums provided by fusetalk.com* :: *ProWorkFlow provided by proworkflow.com* *Tutorials provided by helmguru.com* :: *Lists hosted by gradwell.com* To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- These lists are syncronised with the CFDeveloper forum at http://forum.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/dev%40lists.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ CFDeveloper Sponsors and contributors:- *Hosting and support provided by CFMXhosting.co.uk* :: *ActivePDF provided by activepdf.com* *Forums provided by fusetalk.com* :: *ProWorkFlow provided by proworkflow.com* *Tutorials provided by helmguru.com* :: *Lists hosted by gradwell.com* To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ______________________________________ -- These lists are syncronised with the CFDeveloper forum at http://forum.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/dev%40lists.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ CFDeveloper Sponsors and contributors:- *Hosting and support provided by CFMXhosting.co.uk* :: *ActivePDF provided by activepdf.com* *Forums provided by fusetalk.com* :: *ProWorkFlow provided by proworkflow.com* *Tutorials provided by helmguru.com* :: *Lists hosted by gradwell.com* To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- These lists are syncronised with the CFDeveloper forum at http://forum.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/dev%40lists.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ CFDeveloper Sponsors and contributors:- *Hosting and support provided by CFMXhosting.co.uk* :: *ActivePDF provided by activepdf.com* *Forums provided by fusetalk.com* :: *ProWorkFlow provided by proworkflow.com* *Tutorials provided by helmguru.com* :: *Lists hosted by gradwell.com* To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- These lists are syncronised with the CFDeveloper forum at http://forum.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/dev%40lists.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ CFDeveloper Sponsors and contributors:- *Hosting and support provided by CFMXhosting.co.uk* :: *ActivePDF provided by activepdf.com* *Forums provided by fusetalk.com* :: *ProWorkFlow provided by proworkflow.com* *Tutorials provided by helmguru.com* :: *Lists hosted by gradwell.com* To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- These lists are syncronised with the CFDeveloper forum at http://forum.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/dev%40lists.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ CFDeveloper Sponsors and contributors:- *Hosting and support provided by CFMXhosting.co.uk* :: *ActivePDF provided by activepdf.com* *Forums provided by fusetalk.com* :: *ProWorkFlow provided by proworkflow.com* *Tutorials provided by helmguru.com* :: *Lists hosted by gradwell.com* To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]