hello Spike > If you don't already understand something of MVC from a design and > implementation point of view you will struggle to figure out which part of > the app belongs to which part of MVC when using either Mach-ii or Fusebox. > Neither of those provide any sort of clue as to the answers to Sam's > question. this is clear!! if i don't know oop, i can't use it only writing in java!! > Having said that, I would agree that Mach-ii does provide a good framework > around which to construct MVC applications. I can't speak for Fusebox > because I've not used the latest versions, and I've never tried to use MVC > with Fusebox 2 and below. this is what, peraphs not very clearly, i've said: any tools lead to use MVC better then others, but the question is that a programmer has to know MVC in abstract!
I mentioned Mach-ii because it is based on implicit invocation architecture, and this leads to separation betwen model and view. best regards salvatore ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Milligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 5:42 PM Subject: RE: Re: [ cf-dev ] MVC > I would have to put in a big caveat here. > > If you don't already understand something of MVC from a design and > implementation point of view you will struggle to figure out which part of > the app belongs to which part of MVC when using either Mach-ii or Fusebox. > Neither of those provide any sort of clue as to the answers to Sam's > question. > > Having said that, I would agree that Mach-ii does provide a good framework > around which to construct MVC applications. I can't speak for Fusebox > because I've not used the latest versions, and I've never tried to use MVC > with Fusebox 2 and below. > > Spike > > > -------------------------------------------- > Stephen Milligan > Code poet for hire > http://www.spike.org.uk > > Do you cfeclipse? http://cfeclipse.tigris.org > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > o.uk] On Behalf Of Salvatore Fusto > >Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 6:46 AM > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: Re: [ cf-dev ] MVC > > > >no, of course; > >i simply say that some frameworks, expecially mach-ii and its > >implicit invocation, help to develop apps follwing MVC, no more. > >i've said that a design pattern is a concept. > >may be my english is not too clear!! > >hope to be clear > >regards > >salvatore > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 4:31 PM > >Subject: Re: Re: [ cf-dev ] MVC > > > > > >> You're not implying that it's important to use Fusebox or > >MACH II if you > >want > >> to implement design patterns, are you? If so, in the name > >of all that is > >right > >> I must regretfully disagree with every fiber of my being ;) > >> > >> ~Simon > >> > >> > > >> > hello, > >> > i would add my opinion to this interesting discussion. > >> > MVC is a design pattern, as many others. It is indipendent from > >programming > >> > and languages, so you can try to implement an app with > >this pattern, > >from > >> > scratch, with a procedural language too, but if you decide to use a > >> > framework such us fusebox or better mach-ii, you will be > >lead to follow > >an > >> > mvc approach as well: in other words, not only is > >important to use the > >right > >> > design pattern for apps, but is more important to use the > >right tools > >too > >> > apply this patter (i could try to implement an app in > >COBOL using MVC, > >but i > >> > do not think to obtain grat resuls). > >> > regards > >> > salvatore > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: "Sam Clement" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 2:38 PM > >> > Subject: RE: [ cf-dev ] MVC > >> > > >> > > >> > > Thanks Spike. Any recommended books/resources? > >> > > > >> > > -----Original Message----- > >> > > From: Stephen Milligan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > > Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 4:57 PM > >> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > > Subject: RE: [ cf-dev ] MVC > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > When you run into a situation where one part of the > >system appears to > >be > >> > > duplicating what another part of the system is doing it > >usually means > >> > > that you have either not chosen the names for the methods/classes > >well, > >> > > or you have not modelled the functionality well. In > >order to figure > >out > >> > > where things are wrong I usually boil it down to 'what is the one > >thing > >> > > that this component is suppposed to be doing'. > >> > > > >> > > In your case it looks like you want the model to be > >responsible for > >the > >> > > data access for the Users and the ManagerUsers component > >to figure out > >> > > when to call each method in the model. I would normally > >call the data > >> > > access component something like UserDAO and give it 4 > >starting methods > >> > > called createUser(), updateUser(), deleteUser() and > >getUser(). Those > >> > > methods may be renamed and added to later, but it's > >usually a safe > >place > >> > > to start. > >> > > > >> > > The controller component would probably have a method called > >> > > processUserForm() that would inspect the form scope and > >decide what > >> > > methods needed to be called in the model to provide > >security checking, > >> > > data validation, transfer object/bean creation etc. > >> > > > >> > > The controller is supposed to be deciding what happens in the > >> > > application, so you ought to be delegating as much of > >the flow control > >> > > logic as possible to it. That's why I would only have 1 > >entry method > >for > >> > > the Users CRUD operations. That method would probably call some > >private > >> > > methods such as > >> > > validateUserForm() and checkPermission() which would do > >> > > validation/security checking before calling the UserDAO > >component to > >do > >> > > CRUD operations as appropriate. > >> > > > >> > > Having said that, exactly how the components and methods > >are designed > >is > >> > > very specific to the application at hand, so don't take > >the above as > >the > >> > > gospel on 'how to do it'. > >> > > > >> > > my 2 cents > >> > > > >> > > Spike > >> > > > >> > > -------------------------------------------- > >> > > Stephen Milligan > >> > > Code poet for hire > >> > > http://www.spike.org.uk > >> > > > >> > > Do you cfeclipse? http://cfeclipse.tigris.org > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >-----Original Message----- > >> > > >From: > >> > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > > >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > > o.uk] On Behalf Of Sam Clement > >> > > >Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 7:48 AM > >> > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > > >Subject: [ cf-dev ] MVC > >> > > > > >> > > >I'm learning about the MVC methodology and looking for good > >> > > >resources for beginners. I've found some good stuff from > >> > > >Benoit Hediard (blogmx > >> > > >code) but would like some more 'theory put into > >practice' type stuff. > >> > > > > >> > > >Currently I'm worried about not de-coupling my controllers > >> > > >from the model layer enough. They basically seem to mirror each > >other: > >> > > > > >> > > >Controller: > >> > > >ManagerUsers > >> > > >add/edit/delete user > >> > > > > >> > > >Model: > >> > > >Users > >> > > >Add/edit/delete user (maybe add > >authenticate/islogged/isAdmin etc.) > >> > > > > >> > > >Is it wise to break up the model layer into smaller separate > >> > > >cfcomponents or is it best to create larger cfcomponents that > >> > > >encapsulate separate business processes? I guess the skill is > >> > > >knowing which trade-offs are worth it (overly complex > >> > > >components vs. simple de-coupled components but a more complex > >> > > >architecture with more dependencies). > >> > > > > >> > > >Any help appreciated. > >> > > > > >> > > > _____ > >> > > > > >> > > >Sam Clement > >> > > >ABOVE Studios > >> > > >Boutique Design Solutions > >> > > > > >> > > >32 Clifford Street - Belmont > >> > > >Trinidad + Tobago - West Indies > >> > > >T: (868) 621 5159 W: abovestudios.com > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >-- > >> > > >These lists are syncronised with the CFDeveloper forum at > >> > > >http://forum.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ > >> > > >Archive: > >http://www.mail-archive.com/dev%40lists.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ > >> > > > > >> > > >CFDeveloper Sponsors and contributors:- > >> > > >*Hosting and support provided by CFMXhosting.co.uk* :: > >> > > >*ActivePDF provided by activepdf.com* > >> > > > *Forums provided by fusetalk.com* :: *ProWorkFlow > >> > > >provided by proworkflow.com* > >> > > > *Tutorials provided by helmguru.com* :: *Lists > >> > > >hosted by gradwell.com* > >> > > > > >> > > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > -- > >> > > These lists are syncronised with the CFDeveloper forum at > >> > > http://forum.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ > >> > > Archive: > >http://www.mail-archive.com/dev%40lists.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ > >> > > > >> > > CFDeveloper Sponsors and contributors:- > >> > > *Hosting and support provided by CFMXhosting.co.uk* :: *ActivePDF > >> > > provided by activepdf.com* > >> > > *Forums provided by fusetalk.com* :: *ProWorkFlow > >provided by > >> > > proworkflow.com* > >> > > *Tutorials provided by helmguru.com* :: > >*Lists hosted by > >> > > gradwell.com* > >> > > > >> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > -- > >> > > These lists are syncronised with the CFDeveloper forum at > >> > http://forum.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ > >> > > Archive: > >http://www.mail-archive.com/dev%40lists.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ > >> > > > >> > > CFDeveloper Sponsors and contributors:- > >> > > *Hosting and support provided by CFMXhosting.co.uk* :: *ActivePDF > >provided > >> > by activepdf.com* > >> > > *Forums provided by fusetalk.com* :: *ProWorkFlow > >provided by > >> > proworkflow.com* > >> > > *Tutorials provided by helmguru.com* :: > >*Lists hosted by > >> > gradwell.com* > >> > > > >> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > These lists are syncronised with the CFDeveloper forum at > >> http://forum.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ > >> > Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/dev%40lists.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ > >> > > >> > CFDeveloper Sponsors and contributors:- > >> > *Hosting and support provided by CFMXhosting.co.uk* :: *ActivePDF > >provided by > >> activepdf.com* > >> > *Forums provided by fusetalk.com* :: *ProWorkFlow provided by > >> proworkflow.com* > >> > *Tutorials provided by helmguru.com* :: *Lists hosted by > >> gradwell.com* > >> > > >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> ______________________________________ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> These lists are syncronised with the CFDeveloper forum at > >http://forum.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ > >> Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/dev%40lists.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ > >> > >> CFDeveloper Sponsors and contributors:- > >> *Hosting and support provided by CFMXhosting.co.uk* :: > >*ActivePDF provided > >by activepdf.com* > >> *Forums provided by fusetalk.com* :: *ProWorkFlow provided by > >proworkflow.com* > >> *Tutorials provided by helmguru.com* :: *Lists hosted by > >gradwell.com* > >> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> > > > > > >-- > >These lists are syncronised with the CFDeveloper forum at > >http://forum.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ > >Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/dev%40lists.cfdeveloper.co.uk/ > > > 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