Howdy,

Yes, that's right, the "bootstrap" effort is not the same, true.

But otherwise, for example build execution time wise (this minimal project
site:site for me runs almost 2 minute, plus artifact build and testing is
about 26 sec = 2+ minutes) does a lot: it has everything in one pass
(artifacts built, tested and site built) in 36 seconds.

HTH
T

On Thu, Nov 17, 2022 at 1:07 PM Elliotte Rusty Harold <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Thanks for demo'ing. What this shows me is that the initial effort to
> create a site in this fashion is vastly greater than with the
> maven-site-plugin. A lot of content that maven-site generates by
> default has to be manually created to make it work with a static site
> generator. For my workflow, the extra development cost far outweighs
> the build time improvements.
>
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 11:14 PM Tamás Cservenák <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Howdy,
> >
> > So, here is "stage No1" that pretty much already delivers what existing
> > site had:
> > https://github.com/jaxen-xpath/jaxen/pull/145
> >
> > Point is: before, it was two runs to build and site (and took a total of
> 2
> > minutes), while now it is 10 seconds more than "build artifacts" (35
> sec).
> >
> > To build it: mvn clean install -P site
> >
> > Just to clear up: I am NOT promoting JBake nor any other static site
> > generator, this was just an exercise to see if we can do simple maven
> sites
> > without site plugin.
> >
> > HTH
> > T
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 7:28 PM Tamás Cservenák <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Howdy,
> > >
> > > I am pretty much convinced it can do all that site is able to do.
> > > Let's see the jaxen conversion result once done.
> > >
> > > Also, this would not push anything, I always wrote (at least intended
> to)
> > > "static site tool is left at discretion of user", I just mentioned
> JBake as
> > > something that can buy out functionality of the maven-site-plugin,
> that's
> > > all.
> > >
> > > T
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 7:25 PM Benjamin Marwell <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Please do NOT consider jbake.
> > >> We (shiro team) ported the page to jbake, and it is really a mess.
> > >> Many things are not supported which can easily be done in other static
> > >> site generators.
> > >> There is absolutely no progress. No java.time support. JSON/YAML
> > >> support is broken and needs a lot of workarounds.
> > >>
> > >> Look at the repo and build it yourself -- the amount of javadoc will
> > >> take very long to process.
> > >> https://github.com/apache/shiro-site
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Am Mi., 16. Nov. 2022 um 13:21 Uhr schrieb Tamás Cservenák
> > >> <[email protected]>:
> > >> >
> > >> > Howdy,
> > >> >
> > >> > I am pretty much sure your site could be pretty much "transported"
> to
> > >> use
> > >> > jbake-maven-plugin instead of maven-site-plugin.
> > >> >
> > >> > I am aware of the long history of the Maven project, being here
> since
> > >> 2006,
> > >> > but still...
> > >> > I don't think what I propose is "build a lamborghini instead of a
> ford
> > >> > pickup".
> > >> >
> > >> > I see it more like "let's replace the ford battery, but given how
> old it
> > >> > is, we have
> > >> > only aftermarket parts for it".
> > >> >
> > >> > Now that you have shown your site, let me try to de-site it, just
> as an
> > >> > experiment...
> > >> > as I never tried this before....
> > >> >
> > >> > Will do it here
> > >> > https://github.com/cstamas/jaxen
> > >> >
> > >> > Thanks
> > >> > T
> > >> >
> > >> > On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 1:08 PM Elliotte Rusty Harold <
> > >> [email protected]>
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > I like some parts of this. I don't agree with others. I agree that
> > >> > > maven site isn't competitive with other site builders, but that
> was
> > >> > > never really its purpose. I think it's OK for generating  a site
> for a
> > >> > > Maven project. I wouldn't expect it to be used for anything else.
> As a
> > >> > > maintainer of one such site <http://www.cafeconleche.org/jaxen/>
> it
> > >> > > would be very inconvenient for me if this plugin disappeared or
> > >> > > changed in a major way.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > The old site design just works. We don't need so-called modern,
> > >> > > responsive sites. For our purposes — documenting code — the 20
> year
> > >> > > old classic HTML we use is just fine. In fact, I'd say it's
> superior
> > >> > > to modern designs as implemented in practice.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I do wish Maven hadn't gone its own way with NIH components like
> > >> > > Plexus, APT, and Doxia that are all essentially used today by
> maven
> > >> > > and no one else. However in fairness this all happened twenty
> years
> > >> > > ago when alternatives that have become de facto standards was not
> > >> > > obviously better or simply did not exist. We should modernize our
> > >> > > dependencies where possible, but I don't think a rewrite is worth
> the
> > >> > > effort and I would oppose anything that broke existing sites,
> links,
> > >> > > and workflows.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > When counting "wasted engineering hours spent on it", these are at
> > >> > > least a couple of orders of magnitude lower than would be spent
> on a
> > >> > > radical replacement of the sort being proposed. It's like
> proposing we
> > >> > > build a new Lamborghini to save the money we spend on oil changes
> for
> > >> > > our 2002 Ford pickup. Of course this is open source, so if anyone
> has
> > >> > > the time and money to spend  on an alternative site plugin that
> > >> > > scratches their itch, by all means they can do it. However this
> should
> > >> > > be a new plugin projects can adopt or not at a time that's
> convenient
> > >> > > for them. It should not replace the existing plugin so many
> projects
> > >> > > already use.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 5:19 AM Tamás Cservenák <
> [email protected]>
> > >> > > wrote:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Howdy,
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > This is really just a brainstorming thread I'd like to spin,
> > >> regarding
> > >> > > > Maven Site stuff.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Again, the message is in wiki
> > >> > > >
> > >>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MAVEN/Quo+Vadis+Maven+Site
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > But I would like to make discussion happen here on dev ML.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Thanks
> > >> > > > T
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > --
> > >> > > Elliotte Rusty Harold
> > >> > > [email protected]
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >> > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
> > >>
> > >>
>
>
>
> --
> Elliotte Rusty Harold
> [email protected]
>
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