On Sun, 28 May 2023 at 04:53, Michael Osipov <micha...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Am 2023-05-27 um 12:10 schrieb Tamás Cservenák:
> > Howdy,
> >
> > I do agree with Lukasz here...but
> >
> > In general, my intention with bringing up this on Slack was motivated by
> > following reasons:
> > - we do have ML (signup needed),
> > - we do have JIRA (ask + approval + signup needed),
> >
> > But all this is a high barrier for "one off" users, many of our users want
> > to ASK us about something, so going through hoops and loops above (and
> > coming back 2 yr after with "please unsub me...") only to post a question
> > is just a very bad experience.
> >
> > Moreover, we are very fragmented repository-wide, and I bet that a novice
> > user will simply be lost:
> > - WHERE (as in which Maven-* GH repo) to ask
> > - WHERE (as in which Maven-* GH repo) to report issue
> > - etc
> >
> > This is why I recommended "single entry point", a kind of dispatcher
> > (discussion) repo/GH project, where one off users can hop on, ASK things
> > and disappear if they like, receive answers where to go, and so on. And if
> > they feel like it, they could join ML or register to JIRA, something TODAY
> > EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO REACH OUT TO US must do. Hence, most "one off askers"
> > would not go so far even.
> >
> > For me, most reasonable would be a new "discussion only" project, for
> > example "apache/maven-project" on GH, that would contain no source, no
> > issues, only discussions enabled and would serve as a "low barrier lobby"
> > for newcomers.
> >
> > Opening discussions in _existing repository_ is unwise IMHO, as "general"
> > discussions/questions do not belong to apache/maven, nor
> > apache/maven-clean-plugin, nor any other existing repo.
>
> I truly do like your idea and also agree with Lukasz -- never give up to
> control to a single party, especially one like MS.
>
> Upshot: One entry point with an empty repo.
Well in case you didn't know the reason for "locking" Jira user
creation (apart from avoiding spam) is the coming move (not sure if
it's not already done) of Jira to Atlassian cloud (which have users
number limitation that's why there is some cleaning of Jira's user).
This limitation doesn;'t exist using gh.
So this problem of single party is just going away,
Jira has some features such as agile management, time estimation,
sprint planning etc..
But are we really using that? Do we really need that?
As far as I can see the usages are:
1. users or dev report a bug or a feature they would like to see
2. dev create a jira after having created a PR (because we said so....)
Then what do we do with that:
1. dev makes a comment and eventually assigns a fixed version. (which
GH just set a milestone)
2. I propose here to not have to create a Jira if a PR exists because
it is just duplicate paperwork.
just create the PR assign a millestone, everything is in the same
place no need to create another ticket somewhere else with the exact
same description as the PR
Github contributors are just used to that, it's simple and quick
no need to add the burden of creating another entry in the tool which
is not linked to the code you are happy to contribute to.
We should be happy to have people contributing to code directly.
And frankly once there is a PR created all the comments are made in
the PR the jira is not commented anymore at all
Using discussions sounds the same as stackoverflow or anything else,
just another channel of communication.
People have preferences and by the way this is the "mode" effect as
well... (same as https://gitter.im/ was trendy etc..)
It's just a matter of opening another channel, nothing else. Now we
just need to be sure we listen to it and answer it....
I was thinking of opening discussions here
https://github.com/apache/maven as it sounds like a more natural
naming convention Maven is at Apache so that sounds like an easy
typing url.
Users will figure out and probably ask questions as they can do using
u...@maven.apache.org and ask questions on core and plugins.
but if you prefer something else why not. I'm just curious to see if
this will really attract people.
For sake of clarity, sending to ML does not need subscription, it's
possible to send an email without being subscribed, the post will only
need to be moderated and people can read answers in archives.
>
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