Jim, just get on the phone and sort it out. It's not that hard. On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:09 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> Jason, please stop confusing the issue. In both cases you mention > below, the PMCs have been very VERY involved in tracking ALL > trademark issues, and have been even more vigilant with those > entities in which they are a part of as far as employment (I > would encourage you to look over, for example, Mark Thomas' > work the last *week* regarding the tomcatexpert stuff). > > If your intent is to enflame the issue, then Good Work. If your > intent was to actually provide informative and not misleading > data, then I would have to give you a D-. > > Since this is from your Sonatype Email, can I assume that you > are sending this with your Sonatype hat on? > > On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:03 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote: > >> Doug, this is only part of the story but if we are strictly talking about >> trademarks here then people should understand what that discussion is about. >> >> What Sonatype was seeking was the use of "Maven Central" as a service mark >> in very much the same way Doug Cutting's company, Cloudera, has been granted >> a memorandum of understanding (MOU) for the service mark "Hadoop World". >> These service marks are for services provided to the community and not >> intended for commercial purposes. One could argue "Hadoop World" is a >> marketing event for Cloudera used to drive sales and raise awareness about >> Cloudera's involvement in Hadoop, but it's an event held for the community >> and it's free of charge. You'll notice that's it's not "Apache Hadoop >> World", it's "Hadoop World". You can see an example of the usage here: >> >> http://ostatic.com/blog/cloudera-announces-hadoop-world-and-hadoop-marches-on >> >> You will also note that what Sonatype is repeatedly accused of which is to >> use "Maven" and not "Apache Maven" you will notice in the link above >> Cloudera seems to be exempt from. Not a single mention of Apache Hadoop in >> that press release. Actually if you walk all over the Cloudera site you'll >> find similar, if not worse abuses, all over their site. This all seems to be >> fine for Cloudera, a company founded by Doug Cutting who is on the Apache >> Board. Cloudera knows this and has been gradually fixing things, but they >> were granted an MOU for "Hadoop World" and no severe action was taken >> against Cloudera as a company. Apache is purportedly and organization based >> on the participation of individuals so really one wouldn't expect any >> targeted action against a company. Doug should know better than anyone how >> these things work, working toward and eventually becoming a member of the >> Apache Board. >> >> We also have the example http://www.tomcatexpert.com/ which also seems to be >> fine, and you'll note this original infraction occurred while Jim Jagielski >> was involved with SpringSource. Jim, as Doug, is on the Apache Board. The >> Apache board took no severe action in the case of TomcatExpert site. >> >> Now, I don't find any of the cases cited above as egregious misappropriation >> of Apache property, but simply a way for companies involved with Apache to >> get some recognition for the work they do and to promote their involvement >> with the projects they've helped make successful. These uses never >> particularly bothered me. What I take exception to is that the fact that >> grants of these exceptions seem selective, Apache policies regarding >> trademarks are made up on the fly, and that what other companies have been >> granted at Apache, Sonatype is not. In addition, the Apache Board felt the >> Maven PMC dysfunctional for not being more forceful with this trademark >> issue even though the Apache Board, by example, has never been this forceful >> with any other company as a whole. Not Wandisco, not Cloudera, not >> SpringSource. In this regard the Maven PMC should have been disbanded, but >> instead the board targeted a whole company. Which by Apache's own philosophy >> of itself being a collection of individuals seems rather odd to me. >> >> So that's a summary of the trademark issue and Doug started the conversation >> with trademarks so I'm fine disclosing that part of the story. >> >> If Doug and Jim want to continue the discussion about the other major issue >> then again, I will leave the initiation of that discussion to them. >> >> On Jun 17, 2011, at 7:54 AM, Doug Cutting wrote: >> >>> For many months the board has been asking the Maven project to obtain >>> proper attribution from Sonatype for Apache's "Maven" trademark. >>> Sonatype has thus far failed to comply. The Sonatype website states >>> only that "Apache Maven" is a trademark of the ASF, not that "Maven" >>> alone is also a trademark of the ASF. Since Sonatype seems to dispute >>> that this trademark belongs to Apache, Sonatype employees are unable to >>> simultaneously legally act for Sonatype and Apache at the same time. So >>> the ASF has removed Sonatype employees from the Maven PMC in order to >>> remove them from conflict. >>> >>> Doug >>> >>> On 06/16/2011 05:11 PM, Jason van Zyl wrote: >>>> Jeff, >>>> >>>> I believe this strictly falls within the purview of the Apache Board to >>>> explain. In particular Jim, Doug and Shane. >>>> >>>> Only the board has the right to reveal the business that has been >>>> transacted on private lists. >>>> >>>> Rest assured that's Sonatype's commitment to Maven users and our pursuit >>>> of innovation with respect to Maven-related technologies has not >>>> stopped, and will not stop. >>>> >>>> On Jun 16, 2011, at 9:42 AM, Jeff Jensen wrote: >>>> >>>>> Is there a forthcoming explanation for a seemingly Maven PMC shakeup? >>>>> I find it odd that consistently excellent contributors such as Lukas, >>>>> Brian, et al are suddenly not on the Maven PMC. This is concerning as >>>>> these are people who have drastically improved and moved Maven >>>>> forward. It's very concerning that a heavy committer such as Benjamin >>>>> is no longer committing as he has done very useful, fantastic work. >>>>> These events are very concerning for the forward progress of Maven. >>>>> The strong temptations for competitive products, a la Gradle, do not >>>>> allow Maven progress to stop; particularly the best progress to date >>>>> of the past year. These events are detrimental. For us uninformed, >>>>> what happened, why is it good, what is the plan forward behind this? >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org >>>>> <mailto:dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org> >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org >>>>> <mailto:dev-h...@maven.apache.org> >>>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Jason >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Jason van Zyl >>>> Founder, Apache Maven >>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >>>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> We all have problems. How we deal with them is a measure of our worth. >>>> >>>> -- Unknown >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jason >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> Jason van Zyl >> Founder, Apache Maven >> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will >> elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come >> and sit softly on your shoulder ... >> >> -- Thoreau >> >> >> > Thanks, Jason ---------------------------------------------------------- Jason van Zyl Founder, Apache Maven http://twitter.com/jvanzyl --------------------------------------------------------- A party which is not afraid of letting culture, business, and welfare go to ruin completely can be omnipotent for a while. -- Jakob Burckhardt
