Jason! I bet you are well aware that the PMC is actively working on an MOU since a few weeks. (I even was roughly walking thru the draft with a Sonatype employee yesterday).
So please relax a bit and stop throwing oil on the fire. LieGrue, strub --- On Fri, 6/17/11, Jason van Zyl <ja...@sonatype.com> wrote: > From: Jason van Zyl <ja...@sonatype.com> > Subject: Re: PMC change explanation? > To: "Jim Jagielski" <j...@jagunet.com> > Cc: "Doug Cutting" <cutt...@apache.org>, "Maven Developers List" > <dev@maven.apache.org>, "Apache Board" <bo...@apache.org> > Date: Friday, June 17, 2011, 1:31 PM > Jim, just get on the phone and sort > it out. It's not that hard. > > On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:09 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote: > > > Jason, please stop confusing the issue. In both cases > you mention > > below, the PMCs have been very VERY involved in > tracking ALL > > trademark issues, and have been even more vigilant > with those > > entities in which they are a part of as far as > employment (I > > would encourage you to look over, for example, Mark > Thomas' > > work the last *week* regarding the tomcatexpert > stuff). > > > > If your intent is to enflame the issue, then Good > Work. If your > > intent was to actually provide informative and not > misleading > > data, then I would have to give you a D-. > > > > Since this is from your Sonatype Email, can I assume > that you > > are sending this with your Sonatype hat on? > > > > On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:03 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote: > > > >> Doug, this is only part of the story but if we are > strictly talking about trademarks here then people should > understand what that discussion is about. > >> > >> What Sonatype was seeking was the use of "Maven > Central" as a service mark in very much the same way Doug > Cutting's company, Cloudera, has been granted a memorandum > of understanding (MOU) for the service mark "Hadoop World". > These service marks are for services provided to the > community and not intended for commercial purposes. One > could argue "Hadoop World" is a marketing event for Cloudera > used to drive sales and raise awareness about Cloudera's > involvement in Hadoop, but it's an event held for the > community and it's free of charge. You'll notice that's it's > not "Apache Hadoop World", it's "Hadoop World". You can see > an example of the usage here: > >> > >> http://ostatic.com/blog/cloudera-announces-hadoop-world-and-hadoop-marches-on > >> > >> You will also note that what Sonatype is > repeatedly accused of which is to use "Maven" and not > "Apache Maven" you will notice in the link above Cloudera > seems to be exempt from. Not a single mention of Apache > Hadoop in that press release. Actually if you walk all over > the Cloudera site you'll find similar, if not worse abuses, > all over their site. This all seems to be fine for Cloudera, > a company founded by Doug Cutting who is on the Apache > Board. Cloudera knows this and has been gradually fixing > things, but they were granted an MOU for "Hadoop World" and > no severe action was taken against Cloudera as a company. > Apache is purportedly and organization based on the > participation of individuals so really one wouldn't expect > any targeted action against a company. Doug should know > better than anyone how these things work, working toward and > eventually becoming a member of the Apache Board. > >> > >> We also have the example http://www.tomcatexpert.com/ which also seems to > >> be > fine, and you'll note this original infraction occurred > while Jim Jagielski was involved with SpringSource. Jim, as > Doug, is on the Apache Board. The Apache board took no > severe action in the case of TomcatExpert site. > >> > >> Now, I don't find any of the cases cited above as > egregious misappropriation of Apache property, but simply a > way for companies involved with Apache to get some > recognition for the work they do and to promote their > involvement with the projects they've helped make > successful. These uses never particularly bothered me. What > I take exception to is that the fact that grants of these > exceptions seem selective, Apache policies regarding > trademarks are made up on the fly, and that what other > companies have been granted at Apache, Sonatype is not. In > addition, the Apache Board felt the Maven PMC dysfunctional > for not being more forceful with this trademark issue even > though the Apache Board, by example, has never been this > forceful with any other company as a whole. Not Wandisco, > not Cloudera, not SpringSource. In this regard the Maven PMC > should have been disbanded, but instead the board targeted a > whole company. Which by Apache's own philosophy of itself > being a collection of individuals seems rather odd to me. > >> > >> So that's a summary of the trademark issue and > Doug started the conversation with trademarks so I'm fine > disclosing that part of the story. > >> > >> If Doug and Jim want to continue the discussion > about the other major issue then again, I will leave the > initiation of that discussion to them. > >> > >> On Jun 17, 2011, at 7:54 AM, Doug Cutting wrote: > >> > >>> For many months the board has been asking the > Maven project to obtain > >>> proper attribution from Sonatype for Apache's > "Maven" trademark. > >>> Sonatype has thus far failed to comply. > The Sonatype website states > >>> only that "Apache Maven" is a trademark of the > ASF, not that "Maven" > >>> alone is also a trademark of the ASF. > Since Sonatype seems to dispute > >>> that this trademark belongs to Apache, > Sonatype employees are unable to > >>> simultaneously legally act for Sonatype and > Apache at the same time. So > >>> the ASF has removed Sonatype employees from > the Maven PMC in order to > >>> remove them from conflict. > >>> > >>> Doug > >>> > >>> On 06/16/2011 05:11 PM, Jason van Zyl wrote: > >>>> Jeff, > >>>> > >>>> I believe this strictly falls within the > purview of the Apache Board to > >>>> explain. In particular Jim, Doug and > Shane. > >>>> > >>>> Only the board has the right to reveal the > business that has been > >>>> transacted on private lists. > >>>> > >>>> Rest assured that's Sonatype's commitment > to Maven users and our pursuit > >>>> of innovation with respect to > Maven-related technologies has not > >>>> stopped, and will not stop. > >>>> > >>>> On Jun 16, 2011, at 9:42 AM, Jeff Jensen > wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Is there a forthcoming explanation for > a seemingly Maven PMC shakeup? > >>>>> I find it odd that consistently > excellent contributors such as Lukas, > >>>>> Brian, et al are suddenly not on the > Maven PMC. This is concerning as > >>>>> these are people who have drastically > improved and moved Maven > >>>>> forward. It's very concerning > that a heavy committer such as Benjamin > >>>>> is no longer committing as he has done > very useful, fantastic work. > >>>>> These events are very concerning for > the forward progress of Maven. > >>>>> The strong temptations for competitive > products, a la Gradle, do not > >>>>> allow Maven progress to stop; > particularly the best progress to date > >>>>> of the past year. These events > are detrimental. For us uninformed, > >>>>> what happened, why is it good, what is > the plan forward behind this? > >>>>> > >>>>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > >>>>> <mailto:dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org> > >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org > >>>>> <mailto:dev-h...@maven.apache.org> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> > >>>> Jason > >>>> > >>>> > ---------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> Jason van Zyl > >>>> Founder, Apache Maven > >>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl > >>>> > --------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> > >>>> We all have problems. How we deal with > them is a measure of our worth. > >>>> > >>>> -- Unknown > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Jason > >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------- > >> Jason van Zyl > >> Founder, Apache Maven > >> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl > >> > --------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase > it, the more it will > >> elude you, but if you turn your attention to other > things, it will come > >> and sit softly on your shoulder ... > >> > >> -- Thoreau > >> > >> > >> > > > > Thanks, > > Jason > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Jason van Zyl > Founder, Apache Maven > http://twitter.com/jvanzyl > --------------------------------------------------------- > > A party which is not afraid of letting culture, > business, and welfare go to ruin completely can > be omnipotent for a while. > > -- Jakob Burckhardt > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org
