On Jun 17, 2011, at 11:02 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote: > Jason, all I can say in response is that I am impressed with > both your reinterpretation of history as well as the size > of your stugots in somehow placing the "blame" on the board > and myself. >
As I am impressed with yours. When things are not done in the open or documented everything can be left to interpretation and that's what's happened here. For months there have been back channel conversations, with the Maven PMC only being recently involved. The board gave the Maven PMC the power to negotiate and took that power away when they didn't like the results. Then the board proceeded to take unilateral action which excludes Sonatype from the project. I consider not being able to vote on anything related to the project being excluded from the project. During your negotiations with any other group about trademarks the board has never taken an action like this. An action many members of the ASF believe to run counter to what the ASF stands for. > We have made incredible progress, and your sweeping and baseless > arguments are impeding and damaging that. I would encourage > you to, for the benefit of the community, restrain yourself. > I think I have just cause for being mildly irritated and I don't think I'm saying anything that's unreasonable, and I'm trying to speak from my first hand experience. Again, because much of these conversations happened in back channels we are in the situation we are in. This is why I removed myself from the Maven PMC in January as I was frustrated, annoyed and hoped that if I were not present the negotiations would be expedited as I'm generally seen as holding some sway over Sonatype and legal trademark law in some mysterious way. I am speaking for myself (and not trying to represent Sonatype's view point in any way) and so I might not be privy to all information, but I believed that as an act of good faith individuals would be restored to the Maven PMC as part of the resolution process. I thought that would happen three weeks ago after your meeting with Wayne. I have been embroiled with the board in arguments about Maven since its inception many years ago, and I fear that conflict has fueled some of the behaviour from the board. I do not control Sonatype, nor do I hold sway over any of its employees and I believe all of them have truly acted in good faith and remained attentive to the discussions, especially Brian. The action taken was uncalled for and though there's a lot I might not agree with at Apache I think a line was crossed with respect to fairness toward people who have been many of the driving forces behind the Maven project. > On Jun 17, 2011, at 10:46 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote: > >> Jim, >> >> Your misunderstanding of someone else's point of view and dismissing it out >> of hand without any further discussion is what got us here in the first >> place. You have no problems ignoring whatever you feel like which generally >> makes it hard to arrive at a resolution. Your job as an ASF Board member is >> to facilitate discussion not stifle it. It is your repeated canceling of >> face to face meetings and lack of communication over the span of months that >> has left us where we are. You shirk your responsibility as the board member >> primarily responsible for this debacle and then basically refuse to be >> accountable by just saying you're going to ignore me. If you want to ignore >> me that's fine, but don't ignore the problem you've heavily contributed to >> forming. I don't need to be involved but the board, Mark Struberg (who >> appears to be responsible now from the Maven PMC side), Larry and Wayne can >> get this resolved with one call. Then it's done and we can move forward and >> do what's best for the Maven project and more importantly Maven users. >> >> On Jun 17, 2011, at 10:16 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote: >> >>> The below shows that you are extremely out of touch regarding >>> what has been going on. As such, I have no problems with >>> ignoring it. >>> >>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:55 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote: >>> >>>> The bottom line is that this is likely easy to resolve very quickly. A >>>> call between a representative Apache board member, a Sonatype >>>> representative, and a secretary to agree on the actions, and carry them >>>> out. That seems like a pretty easy plan of action. Anything else just says >>>> to me that the board doesn't really care what happens to the Maven >>>> project. I think Sonatype has been reasonable, I think I can even dig up >>>> an email that says your legal counsel thinks we have been reasonable. Just >>>> put the issue to rest and one of you call Wayne. It's absurd that it's >>>> come to this. The Apache Board can put this issue to rest, or permanently >>>> screw the project. I don't think it's in anyone else's hands really except >>>> the Apache Board. >>>> >>>> On Jun 17, 2011, at 9:22 AM, Doug Cutting wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 06/17/2011 03:03 PM, Jason van Zyl wrote: >>>>>> What Sonatype was seeking was the use of "Maven Central" as a service >>>>>> mark in very much the same way Doug Cutting's company, Cloudera, has >>>>>> been granted a memorandum of understanding (MOU) for the service mark >>>>>> "Hadoop World". >>>>> >>>>> That's a separate issue from the "Maven" software product trademark. >>>>> Let's please not confuse them. The action I described and the >>>>> attribution the ASF seeks is related to the product trademark, not any >>>>> service mark. >>>>> >>>>>> ... Cloudera, a company founded by Doug Cutting ... >>>>> >>>>> FWIW, I am not a Cloudera founder, just an employee. >>>>> >>>>> Doug >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Jason >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Jason van Zyl >>>> Founder, Apache Maven >>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >>>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> What matters is not ideas, but the people who have them. Good people can >>>> fix bad ideas, but good ideas can't save bad people. >>>> >>>> -- Paul Graham >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org >>> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jason >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> Jason van Zyl >> Founder, Apache Maven >> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Selfish deeds are the shortest path to self destruction. >> >> -- The Seven Samuari, Akira Kurosawa >> >> >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org > Thanks, Jason ---------------------------------------------------------- Jason van Zyl Founder, Apache Maven http://twitter.com/jvanzyl --------------------------------------------------------- In short, man creates for himself a new religion of a rational and technical order to justify his work and to be justified in it. -- Jacques Ellul, The Technological Society
