Greg, After all these years I don't spend much time thinking about logging anymore. I use SLF4J, Logback and contribute back to those projects if I need anything.
I see that 8-9 projects at Apache are already using Logback which I think is a pretty good indicator. At any rate, I think that we'll get SLF4J into Maven for the next release. The discussion as to whether we actually need a logging framework in Maven itself is the first discussion and then if we decide that we do, then we will enter the discussion as to what framework is appropriate. On Nov 12, 2012, at 10:22 AM, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: > Jason, > > That's all fine. I am looking for specifics to make Log4J 2 better. > > Gary > > On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Jason van Zyl <ja...@tesla.io> wrote: > >> Gary, >> >> If by that you mean that it's an Apache project, I don't consider that to >> be a significant criterion. For me to incorporate something it matters that >> it's technically good and has been vetted, is mature, is well supported and >> has a community of users as that's how something gets vetted over time. >> Those are the criteria that I believe are important. Where the project >> resides is a matter of happenstance. I use Logback for everything and have >> a great relationship with Ceki so personally that's my dogfood. >> >> On Nov 11, 2012, at 9:48 AM, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> And then there is the whole eating your own dog food aspect of >>> choosing a logging framework. We've made some significant progress >>> over at log4j 2.0 and we are days from a beta3 release. It would be >>> nice to hear how we could further improve 2.0 to whet Maven's logging >>> appetite. >>> >>> Gary >>> >>> On Nov 11, 2012, at 5:19, Jason van Zyl <ja...@tesla.io> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 11, 2012, at 2:49 AM, Olivier Lamy <ol...@apache.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Perso I propose a change by pointing you (you means other maven dev >>>>> folks too) to a branch I made somewhere but you commit code without >>>>> listening POV from others. >>>>> If you could wait to hear what other thinks that could be lovely.... >>>> >>>> I believe you do exactly what you accuse me of Olivier. You did not >> propose a change, you pointed to your branch with a terse "fixed" as if it >> were a foregone conclusion. >>>> >>>> I started the SLF4J work, I worked with Ceki to try and minimize the >> change, keep the ITs passing while preserving the existing behaviour and >> keeping the dependency size and complexity to a minimum. >>>> >>>> I've been working on restoring the behaviour and my goal, at least, was >> to reduce the possible complication of using a larger framework. The second >> I created the JIRA issue, you point at your branch and say "fixed" without >> any explanation. You used the console transfer listener not working -- and >> I admit that was annoying and I apologize for leaving it like that so long >> -- as a vehicle for adding your preferred logging framework. My goal was to >> introduce SLF4J in a minimal way, at least to start. So if that conflicts >> with your goal then that's fine but jumping in the middle of the work I'm >> doing with a change that proposes to throw away the work I did with SLF4J >> Simple is not fine. Couching it as me not taking into account a wider >> discussion as a response to me finishing what I started with a veto even >> less so. >>>> >>>> I didn't change any of the dependencies, completed the work I started >> and fixed what I broke which I believe is reasonable. >>>> >>>> If the discussion is now transitioning to users want flexible logging >> and the choice of a logging framework that's fine. But I still maintain the >> CLI use of logging can be limited and constrained while allowing >> integrators to make the small changes necessary to add flexible logging. >> But if we want to choose a framework let's look at the options, if people >> want to go that route, and select the best option. >>>> >>>> Reverting my commit will break the console transfer listener. The >> discussion about the use of a logging framework, and its choice if so >> decided, is not a foregone conclusion. So I will revert my commit in the >> morning when I wake up if you want the broken behaviour restored. But note >> I believe you are being unreasonable in that you haven't said a word until >> I raised the JIRA issue today and then took offense to me finishing my work >> while I was in the process of correcting what I broke. Obviously you were >> working on your branch while I was working on my fixes but nothing was >> brought up aside from JIRA. >>>> >>>> You have made sweeping changes in the transport and while you have made >> improvements, you have introduced several things that don't work as they >> did previously -- and I have brought these up with you directly, especially >> as it pertains to security -- I have not jumped down your throat with a >> veto as I expect you will eventually fix them because you care about users. >> Please do me the same courtesy. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Olivier Lamy >>>>>>> Talend: http://coders.talend.com >>>>>>> http://twitter.com/olamy | http://linkedin.com/in/olamy >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> >>>>>> Jason >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> Jason van Zyl >>>>>> Founder & CTO, Sonatype >>>>>> Founder, Apache Maven >>>>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> >>>>>> We all have problems. How we deal with them is a measure of our worth. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- Unknown >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Olivier Lamy >>>>> Talend: http://coders.talend.com >>>>> http://twitter.com/olamy | http://linkedin.com/in/olamy >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org >>>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Jason >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Jason van Zyl >>>> Founder & CTO, Sonatype >>>> Founder, Apache Maven >>>> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >>>> --------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@maven.apache.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@maven.apache.org >>> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jason >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> Jason van Zyl >> Founder & CTO, Sonatype >> Founder, Apache Maven >> http://twitter.com/jvanzyl >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> People develop abstractions by generalizing from concrete examples. >> Every attempt to determine the correct abstraction on paper without >> actually developing a running system is doomed to failure. No one >> is that smart. A framework is a resuable design, so you develop it by >> looking at the things it is supposed to be a design of. The more examples >> you look at, the more general your framework will be. >> >> -- Ralph Johnson & Don Roberts, Patterns for Evolving Frameworks >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org > JUnit in Action, 2nd Ed: <http://goog_1249600977>http://bit.ly/ECvg0 > Spring Batch in Action: <http://s.apache.org/HOq>http://bit.ly/bqpbCK > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com > Home: http://garygregory.com/ > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory Thanks, Jason ---------------------------------------------------------- Jason van Zyl Founder & CTO, Sonatype Founder, Apache Maven http://twitter.com/jvanzyl --------------------------------------------------------- believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who has said it, not even if i have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -- Buddha
