In the main yes- I've made some changes:
- Expand ambari to manage the remaining sensor-specific configs
- Refactor the push calls to zookeeper (in ConfigurationUtils, I think)
to push to ambari and take an Ambari user/pw and (optionally) reason
- (Ambari can push to zookeeper, but it requires a service restart, so for
"live changes" you may
want do both a rest call and zookeeper update from ConfigurationUtils)
WAS
Question remains about whether ambari can do the push to zookeeper
or whetheror whether ConfigurationUtils has to push to zookeeper as
well as update
ambari.
- Refactor the middleware that Ryan submitted to have the API calls take
an Ambari user/pw and (optionally) reason
- Refactor the management UI to pass in an Ambari user/pw and
(optionally) reason
- Refactor the Stellar Management functions CONFIG_PUT to accept an
Ambari user/pw and (optionally) reason
I think we'd need to do some detailed design around how to handle what we
expect to be dynamic configs, but the main principle should (imo) be to
always know who and why and make sure that Ambari is aware and is the
static backing store for Zookeeper.
-D...
On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:19 AM, Casey Stella <ceste...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So, basically, your proposed changes, broken into tangible gobbets of work:
>
> - Expand ambari to manage the remaining sensor-specific configs
> - Refactor the push calls to zookeeper (in ConfigurationUtils, I think)
> to push to ambari and take a reason
> - Question remains about whether ambari can do the push to zookeeper
> or whether ConfigurationUtils has to push to zookeeper as well as
> update
> ambari.
> - Refactor the middleware that Ryan submitted to have the API calls take
> a reason
> - Refactor the management UI to pass in a reason
> - Refactor the Stellar Management functions CONFIG_PUT to accept a
> reason
>
> Just so we can evaluate it and I can ensure I haven't overlooked some
> important point. Please tell me if Ambari cannot do the things we're
> suggesting it can do.
>
> Casey
>
> On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:15 AM, David Lyle <dlyle65...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > That's exactly correct, Casey. Basically, an expansion of what we're
> > currently doing with global.json, enrichment.properties and
> > elasticsearch.properties.
> >
> > -D...
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:12 AM, Casey Stella <ceste...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > I would suggest not having Ambari replace zookeeper. I think the
> > proposal
> > > is to have Ambari replace the editable store (like the JSON files on
> > > disk). Zookeeper woudl be the source of truth for the running
> topologies
> > > and ambari would be sync'd to it.
> > >
> > > Correct if I misspeak, dave or matt.
> > >
> > > Casey
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 9:09 AM, Nick Allen <n...@nickallen.org>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ambari seems like a logical choice.
> > > >
> > > > *>> It doesn’t natively integrate Zookeeper storage of configs, but
> > there
> > > > is a natural place to specify copy to/from Zookeeper for the files
> > > > desired.*
> > > >
> > > > How would Ambari interact with Zookeeper in this scenario? Would
> > Ambari
> > > > replace Zookeeper completely? Or would Zookeeper act as the
> persistence
> > > > tier under Ambari?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 9:24 PM, Matt Foley <ma...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Mike, could you try again on the image, please, making sure it is a
> > > > simple
> > > > > format (gif, png, or jpeg)? It got munched, at least in my viewer.
> > > > Thanks.
> > > > >
> > > > > Casey, responding to some of the questions you raised:
> > > > >
> > > > > I’m going to make a rather strong statement: We already have a
> > service
> > > > > “to intermediate and handle config update/retrieval”.
> > > > > Furthermore, it:
> > > > > - Correctly handles the problems of distributed services running on
> > > > > multi-node clusters. (That’s a HARD problem, people, and we
> > shouldn’t
> > > > try
> > > > > to reinvent the wheel.)
> > > > > - Correctly handles Kerberos security. (That’s kinda hard too, or
> at
> > > > least
> > > > > a lot of work.)
> > > > > - It does automatic versioning of configurations, and allows
> viewing,
> > > > > comparing, and reverting historical configs
> > > > > - It has a capable REST API for all those things.
> > > > > It doesn’t natively integrate Zookeeper storage of configs, but
> there
> > > is
> > > > a
> > > > > natural place to specify copy to/from Zookeeper for the files
> > desired.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is Ambari. And we should commit to it, rather than try to
> > re-create
> > > > > such features.
> > > > > Because it has a good REST API, it is perfectly feasible to
> implement
> > > > > Stellar functions that call it.
> > > > > GUI configuration tools can also use the Ambari APIs, or better yet
> > be
> > > > > integrated in an “Ambari View”. (Eg, see the “Yarn Capacity
> Scheduler
> > > > > Configuration Tool” example in the Ambari documentation, under
> “Using
> > > > > Ambari Views”.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Arguments are: Parsimony, Sufficiency, Not reinventing the wheel,
> and
> > > Not
> > > > > spending weeks and weeks of developer time over the next year
> > > reinventing
> > > > > the wheel while getting details wrong multiple times…
> > > > >
> > > > > Okay, off soapbox.
> > > > >
> > > > > Casey asked what the config update behavior of Ambari is, and how
> it
> > > will
> > > > > interact with changes made from outside Ambari.
> > > > > The following is from my experience working with the Ambari Mpack
> for
> > > > > Metron. I am not otherwise an Ambari expert, so tomorrow I’ll get
> it
> > > > > reviewed by an Ambari development engineer.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ambari-server runs on one node, and Ambari-agent runs on each of
> all
> > > the
> > > > > nodes.
> > > > > Ambari-server has a private set of py, xml, and template files,
> which
> > > > > together are used both to generate the Ambari configuration GUI,
> with
> > > > > defaults, and to generate configuration files (of any needed
> > filetype)
> > > > for
> > > > > the various Stack components.
> > > > > Ambari-server also has a database where it stores the schema
> related
> > to
> > > > > these files, so even if you reach in and edit Ambari’s files, it
> will
> > > > Error
> > > > > out if the set of parameters or parameter names changes. The
> > > historical
> > > > > information about configuration changes is also stored in the db.
> > > > > For each component (and in the case of Metron, for each topology),
> > > there
> > > > > is a python file which controls the logic for these actions, among
> > > > others:
> > > > > - Install
> > > > > - Start / stop / restart / status
> > > > > - Configure
> > > > >
> > > > > It is actually up to this python code (which we wrote for the
> Metron
> > > > > Mpack) what happens in each of these API calls. But the current
> > code,
> > > > and
> > > > > I believe this is typical of Ambari-managed components, performs a
> > > > > “Configure” action whenever you press the “Save” button after
> > changing
> > > a
> > > > > component config in Ambari, and also on each Install and Start or
> > > > Restart.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Configure action consists of approximately the following
> sequence
> > > > (see
> > > > > disclaimer above :-)
> > > > > - Recreate the generated config files, using the template files and
> > the
> > > > > actual configuration most recently set in Ambari
> > > > > o Note this is also under the control of python code that we wrote,
> > and
> > > > > this is the appropriate place to push to ZK if desired.
> > > > > - Propagate those config files to each Ambari-agent, with a command
> > to
> > > > set
> > > > > them locally
> > > > > - The ambari-agents on each node receive the files and write them
> to
> > > the
> > > > > specified locations on local storage
> > > > >
> > > > > Ambari-server then whines that the updated services should be
> > > restarted,
> > > > > but does not initiate that action itself (unless of course the
> > > initiating
> > > > > action was a Start command from the administrator).
> > > > >
> > > > > Make sense? It’s all quite straightforward in concept, there’s
> just
> > an
> > > > > awful lot of stuff wrapped around that to make it all go smoothly
> and
> > > > > handle the problems when it doesn’t.
> > > > >
> > > > > There’s additional complexity in that the Ambari-agent also caches
> > (on
> > > > > each node) both the template files and COMPILED forms of the python
> > > files
> > > > > (.pyc) involved in transforming them. The pyc files incorporate
> some
> > > > > amount of additional info regarding parameter values, but I’m not
> > sure
> > > of
> > > > > the form. I don’t think that changes the above in any practical
> way
> > > > unless
> > > > > you’re trying to cheat Ambari by reaching in and editing its files
> > > > > directly. In that case, you also need to whack the pyc files (on
> > each
> > > > > node) to force the data to be reloaded from Ambari-server. Best
> > > solution
> > > > > is don’t cheat.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, there may be circumstances under which the Ambari-agent will
> > > detect
> > > > > changes and re-write the latest version it knows of the config
> files,
> > > > even
> > > > > without a Save or Start action at the Ambari-server. I’m not sure
> of
> > > > this
> > > > > and need to check with Ambari developers. It may no longer happen,
> > > altho
> > > > > I’m pretty sure change detection/reversion was a feature of early
> > > > versions
> > > > > of Ambari.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hope this helps,
> > > > > --Matt
> > > > >
> > > > > ================================================
> > > > > From: Michael Miklavcic <michael.miklav...@gmail.com>
> > > > > Reply-To: "dev@metron.incubator.apache.org"
> > > > <dev@metron.incubator.apache.
> > > > > org>
> > > > > Date: Thursday, January 12, 2017 at 3:59 PM
> > > > > To: "dev@metron.incubator.apache.org"
> <dev@metron.incubator.apache.
> > org
> > > >
> > > > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Ambari Metron Configuration Management
> > > > consequences
> > > > > and call to action
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Casey,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for starting this thread. I believe you are correct in your
> > > > > assessment of the 4 options for updating configs in Metron. When
> > using
> > > > more
> > > > > than one of these options we can get into a split-brain scenario. A
> > > basic
> > > > > example is updating the global config on disk and using the
> > > > > zk_load_configs.sh. Later, if a user decides to restart Ambari, the
> > > > cached
> > > > > version stored by Ambari (it's in the MySQL or other database
> backing
> > > > > Ambari) will be written out to disk in the defined config
> directory,
> > > and
> > > > > subsequently loaded using the zk_load_configs.sh under the hood.
> Any
> > > > global
> > > > > configuration modified outside of Ambari will be lost at this
> point.
> > > This
> > > > > is obviously undesirable, but I also like the purpose and utility
> > > exposed
> > > > > by the multiple config management interfaces we currently have
> > > > available. I
> > > > > also agree that a service would be best.
> > > > >
> > > > > For reference, here's my understanding of the current configuration
> > > > > loading mechanisms and their deps.
> > > > >
> > > > > <image>
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Casey Stella <ceste...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > In the course of discussion on the PR for METRON-652
> > > > > <https://github.com/apache/incubator-metron/pull/415> something
> > that I
> > > > > should definitely have understood better came to light and I
> thought
> > > that
> > > > > it was worth bringing to the attention of the community to get
> > > > > clarification/discuss is just how we manage configs.
> > > > >
> > > > > Currently (assuming the management UI that Ryan Merriman submitted)
> > > > configs
> > > > > are managed/adjusted via a couple of different mechanism.
> > > > >
> > > > > - zk_load_utils.sh: pushed and pulled from disk to zookeeper
> > > > > - Stellar REPL: pushed and pulled via the CONFIG_GET/CONFIG_PUT
> > > > > functions
> > > > > - Ambari: initialized via the zk_load_utils script and then some
> > of
> > > > them
> > > > > are managed directly (global config) and some indirectly
> > > > > (sensor-specific
> > > > > configs).
> > > > > - NOTE: Upon service restart, it may or may not overwrite
> > changes
> > > > on
> > > > > disk or on zookeeper. *Can someone more knowledgeable than
> me
> > > > about
> > > > > this describe precisely the semantics that we can expect on
> > > > > service restart
> > > > > for Ambari? What gets overwritten on disk and what gets
> updated
> > > > > in ambari?*
> > > > > - The Management UI: manages some of the configs. *RYAN: Which
> > > configs
> > > > > do we support here and which don't we support here?*
> > > > >
> > > > > As you can see, we have a mishmash of mechanisms to update and
> manage
> > > the
> > > > > configuration for Metron in zookeeper. In the beginning the
> approach
> > > was
> > > > > just to edit configs on disk and push/pull them via zk_load_utils.
> > > > Configs
> > > > > could be historically managed using source control, etc. As we got
> > > more
> > > > > and more components managing the configs, we haven't taken care
> that
> > > they
> > > > > they all work with each other in an expected way (I believe these
> are
> > > > > true..correct me if I'm wrong):
> > > > >
> > > > > - If configs are modified in the management UI or the Stellar
> REPL
> > > and
> > > > > someone forgets to pull the configs from zookeeper to disk,
> before
> > > > they
> > > > > do
> > > > > a push via zk_load_utils, they will clobber the configs in
> > zookeeper
> > > > > with
> > > > > old configs.
> > > > > - If the global config is changed on disk and the ambari service
> > > > > restarts, it'll get reset with the original global config.
> > > > > - *Ryan, in the management UI, if someone changes the zookeeper
> > > > configs
> > > > > from outside, are those configs reflected immediately in the
> UI?*
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It seems to me that we have a couple of options here:
> > > > >
> > > > > - A service to intermediate and handle config update/retrieval
> and
> > > > > tracking historical changes so these different mechanisms can
> use
> > a
> > > > > common
> > > > > component for config management/tracking and refactor the
> existing
> > > > > mechanisms to use that service
> > > > > - Standardize on exactly one component to manage the configs and
> > > > regress
> > > > > the others (that's a verb, right? nicer than delete.)
> > > > >
> > > > > I happen to like the service approach, myself, but I wanted to put
> it
> > > up
> > > > > for discussion and hopefully someone will volunteer to design such
> a
> > > > thing.
> > > > >
> > > > > To frame the debate, I want us to keep in mind a couple of things
> > that
> > > > may
> > > > > or may not be relevant to the discussion:
> > > > >
> > > > > - We will eventually be moving to support kerberos so there
> should
> > > at
> > > > > least be a path to use kerberos for any solution IMO
> > > > > - There is value in each of the different mechanisms in place
> now.
> > > If
> > > > > there weren't, then they wouldn't have been created. Before we
> > try
> > > to
> > > > > make
> > > > > this a "there can be only one" argument, I'd like to hear very
> > good
> > > > > arguments.
> > > > >
> > > > > Finally, I'd appreciate if some people might answer the questions I
> > > have
> > > > in
> > > > > bold there. Hopefully this discussion, if nothing else happens,
> will
> > > > > result in fodder for proper documentation of the ins and outs of
> each
> > > of
> > > > > the components bulleted above.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best,
> > > > >
> > > > > Casey
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Nick Allen <n...@nickallen.org>
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
