@Junru I fully agree with what you said. What I meant is we need to make more customers know about them.
Lin On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 6:34 PM Junru Shao <junrushao1...@gmail.com> wrote: > @Lin I believe that the way to build a healthy community is to make both > customers and developers happy. In this case, I feel like the more > important thing about toolkits is to explain how useful they are to our > customers, rather than positions, components or anything else. > > As I mentioned above, the usefulness comes from two aspects (at least). > > 1) they provide state-of-the-art models and training techniques > out-of-the-box. If our customers want inference only, we have model zoo; If > our customers want to train on their own dataset, we have awesome training > tricks enclosed. > > 2) it provides exemplary codebase for anyone who wants to use Gluon > elegantly. It does help a lot for real-world development, compared with > simplest examples like tutorial. > > > On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 6:07 PM Junru Shao <junrushao1...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Probably we should figure out how to explain MXNet Gluon to customers. In > > this case, I agree with @Mu that > > > > 1) MXNet Gluon provides high-level API like what Keras gives to > TensorFlow. > > > > 2) MXNet Gluon supports hybridization, which unifies both symbolic and > > imperative programming style. > > > > Also, about toolkits, we could mention > > > > 3) GluonNLP and GluonCV are two awesome libraries in their respective > > domain, both of which are built on MXNet Gluon. They not only provide an > > awesome exemplary codebase for customers to learn the best way to use > MXNet > > Gluon, but also come with the state-of-the-art models and training > > techniques out-of-the-box. > > > > Any other ideas? > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 5:54 PM Pedro Larroy < > pedro.larroy.li...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > >> +1 to MXNet Gluon given the feedbacks and explanations from everyone so > >> far. > >> > >> On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 5:09 PM Junru Shao <junrushao1...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > I feel like MXNet Gluon is a good name. You don't lose customers who > >> have > >> > been familiar with MXNet, nor lose customers who are used to MXNet > >> symbolic. > >> > > >> > On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 5:07 PM Davydenko, Denis < > >> > dzianis.davydze...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > > As subject suggests this is a proposal for re-branding of Gluon to > >> align > >> > > it with MXNet. One of the common things undertaken for re-branding > >> > > exercises is renaming. That's what my thinking behind suggesting new > >> name > >> > > for Gluon. I am sincerely curious what would be alternatives to > >> rebrand > >> > > Gluon to align it with MXNet without changing its name. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > On 3/22/19, 4:57 PM, "Mu Li" <muli....@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > Are you proposing to rename Gluon? I think Pedro's opinion is > >> about a > >> > > better way to communicate what's Gluon and how it's related to > >> MXNet. > >> > > > >> > > On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 4:54 PM Davydenko, Denis > >> > > <d...@amazon.com.invalid> > >> > > wrote: > >> > > > >> > > > I support idea of putting brands of MXNet and Gluon closer > >> together. > >> > > I > >> > > > agree with your argument, Mu, but MXNet is quite far away from > >> TF > >> > > place at > >> > > > this time so I don’t know how well that argument is > transferable > >> > > from TF > >> > > > position to MXNet position. > >> > > > > >> > > > MXNet Imperative is definitely too restrictive of a name, we > can > >> > > come up > >> > > > with better one... MXNet-M for example, stands for > >> MXNet-Modified > >> > > (military > >> > > > connotation). If naming is the only thing we need to figure > out > >> - > >> > > that is a > >> > > > good place to be in __ > >> > > > > >> > > > -- > >> > > > Thanks, > >> > > > Denis > >> > > > > >> > > > On 3/22/19, 4:48 PM, "Mu Li" <muli....@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Gluon is about imperative neural network training and data > >> > > loading. > >> > > > ndarray > >> > > > is another large imperative module. Besides, Gluon also > >> supports > >> > > > symbolic > >> > > > execution after hybridizing. mxnet imperative might not > be > >> a > >> > > good > >> > > > name for > >> > > > it. Another choice is high-level API, that's how TF talks > >> about > >> > > Keras. > >> > > > > >> > > > On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 4:38 PM Yuan Tang < > >> > > terrytangy...@gmail.com> > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > > +1 > >> > > > > > >> > > > > On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 7:29 PM Lin Yuan < > >> apefor...@gmail.com> > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > +1. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Just to give some of my real experience: > >> > > > > > 1) I advertised a recent GluonNLP blog and many > >> responses are > >> > > > "This seems > >> > > > > > nice. So is Gluon a new library to replace MXNet?" > >> > > > > > 2) We visited customers in a unicorn company who > showed > >> > > interests > >> > > > in > >> > > > > MXNet > >> > > > > > but none of the engineers knew the relationship > between > >> > > > GluonNLP/GluonCV > >> > > > > > and MXNet > >> > > > > > 3) When integrating MXNet to Horovod and adding > >> examples, I > >> > > > received > >> > > > > > comments like "What is Gluon? Is it a new library in > >> > > addition to > >> > > > MXNet?" > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Everyone is talking about PyTorch nowadays, but not > >> Caffe2 > >> > > anymore > >> > > > > although > >> > > > > > the latter is still serving as a backend component. > >> Maybe we > >> > > > should also > >> > > > > > doubledown on one brand? > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Lin > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 4:02 PM Pedro Larroy < > >> > > > > pedro.larroy.li...@gmail.com > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Hi dev@ > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > We heard feedback from users that the Gluon name is > >> > > confusing. > >> > > > Some of > >> > > > > > > them don't even know it's MXNet and it's unclear the > >> > > > relationship with > >> > > > > > > MXNet > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Would it make sense to rebrand Gluon to just MXNet > or > >> MXNet > >> > > > > > > imperative? Diluting brands and names is never a > good > >> idea. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > There's also gluonhq which is related to JavaFX > which > >> adds > >> > > to the > >> > > > > > > confusion, search engine friendliness is not high as > >> well. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Pedro. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >
