Thanks for the input Ernie, this is very helpful.
Communication is not always an easy thing. Just because one person says
something doesn't mean that others may completely understand what was
being said. That's why it's important to follow up to ensure things are
understood correctly and not making some wrong assumptions.
More specifics below (EB =>)
Eric Bresie
ebre...@gmail.com
On Sat, May 7, 2022 at 11:27 AM Ernie Rael<err...@raelity.com> wrote:
> what happens now with the abandoned code?
Whatever you want within the constraints of the licensing.
After the following, from a thread last month, "Usage of NBPython Code
[License]", following was sent around April 10, the following got
general agreement, and I thought things were clarified.
EB=> For reference this thread was originally more than just the Python
portion in the donation but assume the same is valid for the other items
listed earlier in the thread.
=============================================
There still seems to be a basic misunderstanding, either yours or mine.
The Apache licensing restrictions primarily have to do with what source
code can be /compiled by and included in and release as an Apache
project/.
EB => Yes, my original plan was to integrate the nbPython as a full cluster
component within Netbeans IDE proper.
EB => This is why I was trying to find out the legal side of integrating it
to be in compliance with Apache, Orache, and relevant parties.
Secondarily, some restricted source code, such as CDDL
licensed, can be compiled by a 3rd party, and still be included by the
Apache team into the released Apache NetBeans project.
EB => The plan was to include in NetBeans core it was assumed it would have
been compiled as part NetBeans like Java, PHP, C/C++, etc. languages
so as such would have been impacted by Apache and applicable
licensing constraints.
EB => I wasn't necessarily planning on compiling something for use by core
NetBeans to be a "3rd party" product. But I suppose something could still
be done in that context.
IIUC, you are not working on an Apache project. It's possible you are
using some code that is part of an Apache project, but that does not
make your code an Apache project.
EB => This is where it deverges some.
EB => Originally the plan was for it to be integrated into Apache NetBeans
core so at that time the assumption was that it would be "part of an Apache
project" and constrained by Apache and applicable licensing constraints.
Being a separate product came later.
You can use any open source code with any open source license, modify
it, extend it... and create a project .
EB => Because of lack of donation and per recommendation elsewhere, I've
started a separate new LSP based project (python4nb) with the licensing
(and namespace) similar to those in Apache NetBeans presently as a starting
point. So this would be a separate independent project (granted initially
without all the bells and whistles of nbPython).
EB => To try to speed up the process, I then started trying to leverage
some code from nbPython which brings up the licensing concerns in a
slightly different context (i.e. use in independent projects not Apache
NetBeans project).
You can put this project on the
plugin portal and anyone can use it with NetBeans.
EB => The expectation was to eventually be published to the plugin portal
once it's more mature and less alphaware (not there yet but at some point).
No restrictions. As
long as you do not expect your project's source code to be included in
the Apache NetBeans source code Repository.
EB => There is the gray area, the nbPython has not been formally donated so
it's technically not Apache source code. But It is nbPython which is part
of the contribs source code of NetBeans, which I understand to be roughly
Oracle ownership with eventual plan to be donated and integrated into
Apache NetBeans. Which is once again why I keep bugging people about the
donation.
EB => I've tried going the alternative route of reaching out to the
nbPython team directly but have received no input from that community
either that I'm aware of.
EB => The nbPython website is not 100% so unable to reach out to anyone
(seehttp://nbpython.org/contact.html - forum page does not work). There
are the contributors (http://nbpython.org/contributors.html) so maybe.
Closest I could find for some of this wereold archive.org snapshot from
many years back.
EB=> Does anyone here still have any influence on management of the
nbPython website?
When I look at your message it seems like you think you can not use
Apache source code, or nbPython source code, or Oracle source code. That
is not correct. You can use them. Just because your project would work
with an Apache project, does not make your project an Apache project.
EB => I thought I'd acknowledged that separately but if not...Okay so then
I can use the nbPython code into my independent project as long as I update
the headers where applicable adding my licensing/copyright text where
applicable and as long as there are not any case specific restrictions
that may further prevent it.
EB => Is it okay to move the code around (i.e. move / refactor from
nbPython namespace to new project namespace)? Or maybe just better to leave
where it is for the sake of helping identify the source of said code.
EB => So then maybe a third option is to take the "contib" version (likely
based on what I did with the "integrated into NetBeans code base" work),
decouple it all together from NetBean codebase and just make it a
completely independent "nbPython" project. But that does beg the question:
can anyone speak for the nbPython community so that I don't get accused of
some wrongdoing by taking over their code.
-ernie
On 5/7/22 8:51 AM, Eric Bresie wrote:
I support Netbeans and am trying to make it a better product by adding
value to it and become a better coder in the process.
Short version:
So what happens now with the abandoned code?
Long version:
I'm not a NetBean core developer, I don't speak for Apache or Oracle, I'm
not a PMC member, I do not speak for any of the individual projects (in
the
case of Python for nbPython, for JIRA, UML, etc). As such I do not have
the authority to represent on matters of "IP clearances" so forgive me
for
trying all due diligence to do things in an acceptable manner.
Donation process is not simple and involves a lot of hard work. Past
efforts have not been overlooked but have been greatly appreciated. I
acknowledge Oracle probably does not want to spend any more time, money,
or
effort on this. Based on (1) the contribution code/participation page,
the indication seems to imply the need for IP Clearance (2) in support
of
incubation (which has come and gone already). I believe some of the
donation is pending this.
Attempts have been made in the past with in most cases, at the time
indication was to wait on the donations to come through before doing
anything else.
So if no no further actions on donations are expected, what does that
mean
for the remaining code? At a minimum can something be documented on the
Apache Transition page to say as much (3)?
So for anything not covered by previous efforts, what is to become of
them? Is nothing to be done and these are abandoned work?
I think indication is asking for someone to take ownership of a given
project (updates licenses, maintenance, etc). Okay...
When I tried in the past (7) I was basically told none of it would be
accepted until the work was done against the official donation was
complete
(I've stopped working on it since), even after spending a significant
amount of time working with what was available at the time. It was
suggested work on new code which I am in the process of attempting (8).
Per (4) there are a few sources of older code (5) (6). Maybe a better
question is, in lieu of lack of "official donation" can the code from
one
of the clones/conversions be used to continue the work for the abandoned
project? And if so, what is needed at a minimum for the work to be
accepted by Apache and the community as a whole (i.e. is adding
applicable
licenses header)?
I've taken in the input and tried to move things forward and tried to
provide input as well...and for all my attempts, I get looked down on and
rejected for the hard work in trying to fill a major gap missing in the
NetBeans (i.e. Python) or add value to the code. If this is the sort of
community being built, maybe I need to find another community.
Eric Bresie
ebre...@gmail.com
References:
(1)
https://netbeans.apache.org/participate/submit-pr.html#contributing-code
(2)https://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/
(3)
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+Transition
(4)https://netbeans.apache.org/about/oracle-transition.html
(5) a clone of the Mercurial repositories at
http://source.apidesign.org/hg/netbeans/
(6) conversion of Mercurial to git is available at
https://github.com/emilianbold/netbeans-releases
(7)https://github.com/ebresie/netbeans/tree/nbpython_integration3
On Fri, May 6, 2022 at 3:56 PM Geertjan Wielenga
<geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
Pick one of these that you (or someone else) are personally going to be
working on, what your schedule is, your timeline, and deliverables.
No, Oracle owes you nothing at all. No, we will not ask Oracle to donate
one more line of code that is not going to be owned by a very specific
person with an actual plan.
Gj
On Fri, 6 May 2022 at 19:37, Eric Bresie<ebre...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm asking again, because there is more than just Python in the
donation.
Further, unless I've missed it, I've not seen an official "Donation 6
is
done", "Donation 6 is ready for review" , or any such notification.
Based on
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+Transition
- JIRA support
-
jira
-
jira.rest
-
jira.xmlrpc
-
Wrappers to third party libraries
(c.atlassian.connector.eclipse.commons.core,
c.atlassian.connector.eclipse.jira.core,
c.atlassian.connector.eclipse.jira.core.rest, c.s.jersey,
c.s.mail.javax.mail, javax.servlet, javax.wsdl, javax.xml.rpc,
javax.xml.soap, libs.jira.rest, o.apache.axis,
o.apache.commons.discovery,
o.codehaus.jettison, o.eclipse.mylyn.commons.soap,
o.eclipse.mylyn.monitor.ui.dummy, o.joda.time)
- contrib –
- ant.freeform.samples
- apisupport.beanbrowser
- apisupport.projectinspector
- autoproject.core
- autoproject.java
- autoproject.profiler
- autoproject.web
- autosave – possibly to be contributed by its non-Oracle
authors
rather than Oracle?
- editor.fscompletion
- gsf
- gsf.api
- gsf.tools
- gsfpath.api
- insertunicode
- java.fscompletion
- javahints
- javahints.generate
- licensechanger
- modulemanager
- mount
- o.n.contrib.debuggerretry
- python.x (15 modules, including the wrappers o.jython,
o.jython.distro) – possibly to be contributed by its non-Oracle
authors
rather than Oracle?
- quickfilechooser
- spellchecker.hunspell
- sysprops
- community clusters:
- community-xml (2326 files)
- community-uml (6365 files)
Eric Bresie
ebre...@gmail.com
On Fri, May 6, 2022 at 9:10 AM Geertjan Wielenga
<geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
You've asked this several times at this point -- each time you've had
an answer already. I believe there's nothing that needs to be donated
anymore.
Gj
On Fri, May 6, 2022 at 4:03 PM Eric Bresie<ebre...@gmail.com> wrote:
What is the current status of Donation 6?
Is there any plans to complete this or has it been abandoned?
Eric Bresie
ebre...@gmail.com
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