> We were actually thinking about doing this using DukeScript a while ago to 
> allow people to run their legacy applications. It would be doable.

I believe it would rather useful for NetBeans (and others).

> But then we decided that it's much better if developers use a modern concept 
> for UI Development like MVVM, otherwise we'll end up in a horrible niche as 
> the only ones doing archaic Swing development in a world that has much better 
> concepts for UI development.

This makes sense if you want to start something new, but what about the 1000 
man-years-projects like NetBeans. Just rewrite it all, with open-source 
contributors?

Isn't MVVM accomplished with Swing an a BeansBinding library?

--emi

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐

On 13 March 2018 10:56 AM, <toni.ep...@eppleton.de> wrote:

> > We need a way to render Swing on a web browser canvas!
> 
> We were actually thinking about doing this using DukeScript a while ago to 
> allow people to run their legacy applications. It would be doable. The JavaFX 
> Team at Oracle had a working JavaFX version for the browser (without Java 
> Plugin). It was using bck2brwsr and my DukeScript canvas API as the rendering 
> pipeline (the demo is still in the internet somewhere). The same would be 
> possible for Swing.
> 
> But then we decided that it's much better if developers use a modern concept 
> for UI Development like MVVM, otherwise we'll end up in a horrible niche as 
> the only ones doing archaic Swing development in a world that has much better 
> concepts for UI development.
> 
> --Toni
> 
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> 
> Von: Emilian Bold emilian.b...@protonmail.ch
> 
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. März 2018 08:59
> 
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> Betreff: Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX 
> from Oracle JDK
> 
> HTML4J goes the wrong way in providing a migration path.
> 
> We don't need new ways to embed components into Swing. We could already embed 
> JavaFX stuff and now we can also embed HTML stuff (rendered by JavaFX).
> 
> We need a way to render Swing on a web browser canvas!
> 
> Then, after Swing is fully in the browser we can decide that instead of 
> having a canvas there just replace that topcomponent rectangle area with a 
> div.
> 
> So, for new apps HTML4J makes more sense.
> 
> For NetBeans HTML4J only makes sense if we start a multi-year process of 
> slowly migrating to HTML4J and then, in the far future, realise we migrated 
> so much we might as well switch the whole main window from a JFrame to a 
> browser tab.
> 
> This plan would probably make sense in a corporation like Oracle, but will no 
> do well under Apache, also because we would have our own technology stack 
> that no contributor would use elsewhere. Mozilla also had XULRunner and 
> people didn't really flock to it.
> 
> --emi
> 
> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> 
> On 12 March 2018 5:59 PM, Jaroslav Tulach jaroslav.tul...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > > "Oracle has begun conversations with interested parties in the Java
> > 
> > > ecosystem on the stewardship of JavaFX, Swing and AWT beyond the above
> > > 
> > > > > > referenced timeframes."
> > 
> > The official announcement is here and people are finally starting to
> > 
> > realize the truth: There is no future for JavaFX, AWT and Swing. Nobody
> > 
> > will sponsor development of anything new for these technologies. Even if
> > 
> > they get transfered to their new owners, they will be in maintenance mode:
> > 
> > Bugfixes and little features. No bigger changes - no new rendering
> > 
> > pipelines using new nifty features of graphics cards. Just sustaining. I've
> > 
> > been explaining this would happen since 2012.
> > 
> > To help us out of this situation and save Java as a programming language I
> > 
> > dedicated my days to smoothing out interoperability between Java and
> > 
> > JavaScript with the goal to reuse the most flexible and portable rendering
> > 
> > system of these days: the browser. My work has already been donated to
> > 
> > Apache, see: https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans-html4j \- let's
> > 
> > use it to build new features of NetBeans and other future Java desktop
> > 
> > applications. Get started by reading Javadoc at
> > 
> > http://bits.netbeans.org/html+java/
> > 
> > Forget about AWT, Swing and JavaFX - the future is HTML. In case you still
> > 
> > care about Java, then your future should be Apache HTML/Java API!
> > 
> > -jt
> 
> --
> 
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> 
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> 
> HTML4J goes the wrong way in providing a migration path.
> 
> We don't need new ways to embed components into Swing. We could already embed 
> JavaFX stuff and now we can also embed HTML stuff (rendered by JavaFX).
> 
> We need a way to render Swing on a web browser canvas!
> 
> Then, after Swing is fully in the browser we can decide that instead of 
> having a canvas there just replace that topcomponent rectangle area with a 
> div.
> 
> So, for new apps HTML4J makes more sense.
> 
> For NetBeans HTML4J only makes sense if we start a multi-year process of 
> slowly migrating to HTML4J and then, in the far future, realise we migrated 
> so much we might as well switch the whole main window from a JFrame to a 
> browser tab.
> 
> This plan would probably make sense in a corporation like Oracle, but will no 
> do well under Apache, also because we would have our own technology stack 
> that no contributor would use elsewhere. Mozilla also had XULRunner and 
> people didn't really flock to it.
> 
> --emi
> 
> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> 
> On 12 March 2018 5:59 PM, Jaroslav Tulach jaroslav.tul...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > > "Oracle has begun conversations with interested parties in the Java
> > 
> > > ecosystem on the stewardship of JavaFX, Swing and AWT beyond the above
> > > 
> > > > > > referenced timeframes."
> > 
> > The official announcement is here and people are finally starting to
> > 
> > realize the truth: There is no future for JavaFX, AWT and Swing. Nobody
> > 
> > will sponsor development of anything new for these technologies. Even if
> > 
> > they get transfered to their new owners, they will be in maintenance mode:
> > 
> > Bugfixes and little features. No bigger changes - no new rendering
> > 
> > pipelines using new nifty features of graphics cards. Just sustaining. I've
> > 
> > been explaining this would happen since 2012.
> > 
> > To help us out of this situation and save Java as a programming language I
> > 
> > dedicated my days to smoothing out interoperability between Java and
> > 
> > JavaScript with the goal to reuse the most flexible and portable rendering
> > 
> > system of these days: the browser. My work has already been donated to
> > 
> > Apache, see: https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans-html4j \- let's
> > 
> > use it to build new features of NetBeans and other future Java desktop
> > 
> > applications. Get started by reading Javadoc at
> > 
> > http://bits.netbeans.org/html+java/
> > 
> > Forget about AWT, Swing and JavaFX - the future is HTML. In case you still
> > 
> > care about Java, then your future should be Apache HTML/Java API!
> > 
> > -jt
> 
> --
> 
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> 
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> 
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org

For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists



Reply via email to