> We were actually thinking about doing this using DukeScript a while ago to > allow people to run their legacy applications. It would be doable.
I believe it would rather useful for NetBeans (and others). > But then we decided that it's much better if developers use a modern concept > for UI Development like MVVM, otherwise we'll end up in a horrible niche as > the only ones doing archaic Swing development in a world that has much better > concepts for UI development. This makes sense if you want to start something new, but what about the 1000 man-years-projects like NetBeans. Just rewrite it all, with open-source contributors? Isn't MVVM accomplished with Swing an a BeansBinding library? --emi ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On 13 March 2018 10:56 AM, <toni.ep...@eppleton.de> wrote: > > We need a way to render Swing on a web browser canvas! > > We were actually thinking about doing this using DukeScript a while ago to > allow people to run their legacy applications. It would be doable. The JavaFX > Team at Oracle had a working JavaFX version for the browser (without Java > Plugin). It was using bck2brwsr and my DukeScript canvas API as the rendering > pipeline (the demo is still in the internet somewhere). The same would be > possible for Swing. > > But then we decided that it's much better if developers use a modern concept > for UI Development like MVVM, otherwise we'll end up in a horrible niche as > the only ones doing archaic Swing development in a world that has much better > concepts for UI development. > > --Toni > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > > Von: Emilian Bold emilian.b...@protonmail.ch > > Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. März 2018 08:59 > > An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org > > Betreff: Re: Apache HTML/Java UI instead of ... Oracle will remove JavaFX > from Oracle JDK > > HTML4J goes the wrong way in providing a migration path. > > We don't need new ways to embed components into Swing. We could already embed > JavaFX stuff and now we can also embed HTML stuff (rendered by JavaFX). > > We need a way to render Swing on a web browser canvas! > > Then, after Swing is fully in the browser we can decide that instead of > having a canvas there just replace that topcomponent rectangle area with a > div. > > So, for new apps HTML4J makes more sense. > > For NetBeans HTML4J only makes sense if we start a multi-year process of > slowly migrating to HTML4J and then, in the far future, realise we migrated > so much we might as well switch the whole main window from a JFrame to a > browser tab. > > This plan would probably make sense in a corporation like Oracle, but will no > do well under Apache, also because we would have our own technology stack > that no contributor would use elsewhere. Mozilla also had XULRunner and > people didn't really flock to it. > > --emi > > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ > > On 12 March 2018 5:59 PM, Jaroslav Tulach jaroslav.tul...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > "Oracle has begun conversations with interested parties in the Java > > > > > ecosystem on the stewardship of JavaFX, Swing and AWT beyond the above > > > > > > > > > referenced timeframes." > > > > The official announcement is here and people are finally starting to > > > > realize the truth: There is no future for JavaFX, AWT and Swing. Nobody > > > > will sponsor development of anything new for these technologies. Even if > > > > they get transfered to their new owners, they will be in maintenance mode: > > > > Bugfixes and little features. No bigger changes - no new rendering > > > > pipelines using new nifty features of graphics cards. Just sustaining. I've > > > > been explaining this would happen since 2012. > > > > To help us out of this situation and save Java as a programming language I > > > > dedicated my days to smoothing out interoperability between Java and > > > > JavaScript with the goal to reuse the most flexible and portable rendering > > > > system of these days: the browser. My work has already been donated to > > > > Apache, see: https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans-html4j \- let's > > > > use it to build new features of NetBeans and other future Java desktop > > > > applications. Get started by reading Javadoc at > > > > http://bits.netbeans.org/html+java/ > > > > Forget about AWT, Swing and JavaFX - the future is HTML. In case you still > > > > care about Java, then your future should be Apache HTML/Java API! > > > > -jt > > -- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists > > HTML4J goes the wrong way in providing a migration path. > > We don't need new ways to embed components into Swing. We could already embed > JavaFX stuff and now we can also embed HTML stuff (rendered by JavaFX). > > We need a way to render Swing on a web browser canvas! > > Then, after Swing is fully in the browser we can decide that instead of > having a canvas there just replace that topcomponent rectangle area with a > div. > > So, for new apps HTML4J makes more sense. > > For NetBeans HTML4J only makes sense if we start a multi-year process of > slowly migrating to HTML4J and then, in the far future, realise we migrated > so much we might as well switch the whole main window from a JFrame to a > browser tab. > > This plan would probably make sense in a corporation like Oracle, but will no > do well under Apache, also because we would have our own technology stack > that no contributor would use elsewhere. Mozilla also had XULRunner and > people didn't really flock to it. > > --emi > > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ > > On 12 March 2018 5:59 PM, Jaroslav Tulach jaroslav.tul...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > "Oracle has begun conversations with interested parties in the Java > > > > > ecosystem on the stewardship of JavaFX, Swing and AWT beyond the above > > > > > > > > > referenced timeframes." > > > > The official announcement is here and people are finally starting to > > > > realize the truth: There is no future for JavaFX, AWT and Swing. Nobody > > > > will sponsor development of anything new for these technologies. Even if > > > > they get transfered to their new owners, they will be in maintenance mode: > > > > Bugfixes and little features. No bigger changes - no new rendering > > > > pipelines using new nifty features of graphics cards. Just sustaining. I've > > > > been explaining this would happen since 2012. > > > > To help us out of this situation and save Java as a programming language I > > > > dedicated my days to smoothing out interoperability between Java and > > > > JavaScript with the goal to reuse the most flexible and portable rendering > > > > system of these days: the browser. My work has already been donated to > > > > Apache, see: https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans-html4j \- let's > > > > use it to build new features of NetBeans and other future Java desktop > > > > applications. Get started by reading Javadoc at > > > > http://bits.netbeans.org/html+java/ > > > > Forget about AWT, Swing and JavaFX - the future is HTML. In case you still > > > > care about Java, then your future should be Apache HTML/Java API! > > > > -jt > > -- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
