Hi Nathan, ``There's a saying here that "if it didn't happen on list, it didn't happen." '' (yes, probably from someone that develops or sales a mailing list software) Hehehe
I think we need to have a middle ground, if every single commit needs to "happen on list, to be considered as happen", it will be very counter productive, counter intuitive. Some discussion should happen here in the mailing list before appearing on GitHub, mostly breaking change features for example. BTW, anyone is invited to review the PRs on GitHub and if he/she think it is relevant, then start a discussion here. BR, Alan On 3/8/23, Nathan Hartman <hartman.nat...@gmail.com> wrote: > I do think that as a project community, this is an important discussion to > have. > > There are significant changes taking place regularly. I am in favor of > improving the code, improving our POSIX-like / Linux-like / Unix-like > compliance as much as is feasible while supporting deeply embedded and > small MCU architectures. > > But I, too, think we should have more technical discussions on the > dev@ mailing list where NuttX users can participate and give their > insights, too. > > I appreciate the work everyone is doing here. That includes Xiaomi of > course, who are doing a TON of work. Now, I have a feeling that Xiaomi > developers are probably discussing/coordinating their work, but that > isn't happening on list, in public, which is an important part of The > Apache Way. There's a saying here that "if it didn't happen on list, > it didn't happen." Moving such discussions to the dev@ list will > benefit NuttX and Xiaomi and the whole community mutually. I don't > want to single out Xiaomi here; all companies that are having internal > discussions about their NuttX development should have those > discussions on list. > > At an absolute minimum, there should be a discussion on-list when a > proposed change will make backwards-incompatible changes, break builds > for out-of-tree boards, change the scripting interface to the build > system, or require other mitigations by users that create nasty > surprises. In the email, please add a link to the PR if the code is > already written, to increase eyeballs looking at it. > > Cheers > Nathan > > On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 9:04 AM Sebastien Lorquet <sebast...@lorquet.fr> > wrote: >> >> I dont think your point of view is very realistic. You seem to be >> turning the situation into something that pleases you but is not really >> compatible with what can be observed from outside. >> >> In the archive for 2023 there are 2035 topics, I just overlooked more >> than 600 of them and ALL of them are just copies of github messages. And >> this is normal, because this is unusable. >> >> Also, I cannot actively review ALL the hundreds of pull requests that >> are regularly sent by large companies. >> >> I am primarily a user, that sometimes sends small contributions. >> >> And I am unhappy when I see that other people were careless with nice >> code and do whatever they want for their own agenda without any >> consideration for other users. >> >> To be honest I dont fully understand why SO MANY changes are required to >> core OS features that should be stable. >> >> There need to be some triage when a new pull request is sent, its >> severity evaluated by someone who is NOT in the company of the original >> contributor, and if severe, it has to be approved on the mailing list. I >> cannot do that alone, even if I try. >> >> At this point do you realize that more than !~90ish% of changes seem to >> come from xiaomi developers and most of these are approved by xiaoxiang >> alone? >> >> Because this HAS to be said. They send overwhelming numbers >> contributions that cannot be possibly understood as a whole, there is no >> clear agenda, they add whatever they like with no roadmap and no review >> from other users that may have other uses. >> >> This has to be under control somehow. I believe even you Alan are not >> aware of the amount of code that enters nuttx. No one can be now. >> >> Sebastien >> >> >> Le 08/03/2023 à 14:39, Alan C. Assis a écrit : >> > Hi Sebastien, >> > >> > Yes, that commit list is mostly for people who don't want to use >> > github but still wanting to see what is going on. >> > >> > Sometimes when a very important PR raises some concern on GitHub PR, >> > people post their concern he, it already happened many times. >> > >> > But again: the best way to guarantee that current changes please you >> > is to keep actively reviewing the PRs and contributing to the project. >> > >> > BR, >> > >> > Alan >> > >> > On 3/8/23, Sebastien Lorquet <sebast...@lorquet.fr> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> I had a look and this mailing list is not made for human consumption. >> >> >> >> No one has ever sent a message on it manually, right? >> >> >> >> In practice, important changes are still NOT discussed on the DEV >> >> mailing list. >> >> >> >> You said yourself that "all development has moved to github". >> >> >> >> As soon as automated tests are passed, every commit is considered with >> >> a >> >> similar level of importance, however this is clearly not the case. >> >> >> >> Sebastien >> >> >> >> Le 08/03/2023 à 13:21, Alan C. Assis a écrit : >> >>> HI Sebastien, >> >>> >> >>> It is already done, you just need to subscribe to >> >>> https://lists.apache.org/list.html?comm...@nuttx.apache.org to >> >>> receive >> >>> all commits messages and discussions. >> >>> >> >>> Everything is archived on apache side! >> >>> >> >>> BR, >> >>> >> >>> Alan >> >>> >> >>> On 3/8/23, Sebastien Lorquet <sebast...@lorquet.fr> wrote: >> >>>> Apache projects are required to use mailing lists for long term >> >>>> archival >> >>>> purposes. >> >>>> >> >>>> It seems to me that this project is avoiding that rule and moved all >> >>>> development to github >> >>>> >> >>>> This is in contradiction with the Apache project rules. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> I request clarification on this situation and requirement (instead >> >>>> of >> >>>> just asserting it), including a review by the apache boards. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> If it is proved that development happens primarily in github and not >> >>>> here I will request the following: >> >>>> >> >>>> -every people committing patches and submitting pull request to be >> >>>> registered on the mailing list so they are able to reply to >> >>>> questions >> >>>> >> >>>> -forwarding of all pull requests traffic to the mailing list >> >>>> >> >>>> For two reasons: (1) Archival purposes, and (2) open discussions >> >>>> with >> >>>> members that follow Apache Foundation mailing list rules and do not >> >>>> take >> >>>> part in github. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Thank you >> >>>> >> >>>> Sebastien >> >>>> >> >>>> >
