On Tue, Jan 28, 2025 at 11:23 AM Sebastien Lorquet <sebast...@lorquet.fr> wrote: > my trust in nuttx is now hard to maintain. > Every day a DELUGE of commits (from xiaomi, this is a fact) is added to > the repository. > I am struggling to understand what happens in this project. > so many fixes are pushed, how is that even possible? this is a quicksand > project!
Sebastien, I feel your pain. Not necessarily with NuttX as this is my "safe island". But with all Open-Source in general. This is the result of enforced-changes ideology introduced ~30 years ago by Microsoft that surrounds us even in daily non-computer life. I don't even mention commercial products that get constantly more expensive and clearly have no basic QA process and break ~6 month after purchase. I lost trust in big brands long ago. > Also, how are such commits (not from xiaomi!) allowed? No description > except "uf2" ? Where is the adult in charge? We do what we can, updated documentation and requirements, added helper bots with feedback, etc, and require sensible descriptions. I even update some PR descriptions by hand. Still it is git log that contains the history true. There is only few people that review the code. If you could help us that would help a lot! You may not use GH for projects just to help us in review.. > I am announcing that after that many years my company has started to > develop a minimal rtos to replace our usage of nuttx, because it is just > not stable enough to be usable for stable long term projects. > > There are too many changes, we are loosing money every time we need an > update. there is no way to maintain the use of a nuttx custom board and > project over several years. > > Having control of our code will be a better investment. That will > obviously be closed source. Which is, after all, a better way of control > on our products. I am facing the same situation for some long years and it gets worse and worse :-( Either use something that is advertised to work quickly but then you are tied to constant moving target and maintenance nightmare and if you want to change one simple thing it takes more time than would take me to write everything myself. On the other hand it is impossible to write everything on your own. I wrote from scratch the LibSWD ~15 years ago to be able to debug.. and it turns out today that I can do much more today with a commercial probe :-( All previous project made with fancy pancy RTOS and frameworks are now in trash. Solutions like Linux and FreeRTOS also change API every release that causes maintenance nightmare. I use FreeBSD as OS but it also has its own problems, more changes are introduced with every release, drivers adopted to be compatible by so called "Linux standard" are self-incompatible nightmare. I am working with niche solutions but the changes come constantly from other places and that impacts even those niche solutions. You will have the same problem with your own RTOS as I face them in my own projects :-( This comes mainly from enforced changes ideologies that are advertised as "innovation" by people with zero old-school coherent simple and effective engineering knowledge.. and maybe from exponential growth that is objectively hard to cope without full time team and that requires funding we have and no one really cases about funding Open-Source just taking the results for free. > No amount of my involvement in the github triage is going to help, the > case is desperate. I just have no time, no energy, no motivation, no > spoons left to deal with this. it's a deluge of commits, let it be, but > without me. Yes, but what was the last time you helped us in review? This is our best-effort and all brainz matter! Help us to make things good. I always valued your constructive criticism on the mailing list.. it would be more than welcome and appreciated on GH too. But you are not on GH so how can you help? I also dont like Microsoft took over GitHub, I also dont like their fake support for Open-Source while its clearly an exploitation, I also dont like we need to ask for over 5 years for FreeBSD CI runners and it is rejected every time. I also use other platforms to host projects, but this is a common place, a tool. > the warning from the apache foundation that you use too many ci credits > should have been a warning to slow down and reflect on the project > direction. nothing has happened except making it even faster. Not really. I would expect support from Apache in tuning stuff, maybe adapting resources to scale of the project (tiny projects have the same amount of resources as big projects). We updated and optimized the CI process as a result. We are working on more independent solutions for both code hosting, build automation, and runtime testing. But this is not a weekend work for few people in a free time. I agree there is a problem. But we do what we can to fix it. All brainz matter. Help us make things good. > I will also discourage people to use this project, I cannot in good > conscience recommend it to anyone, it would be a trap. Just as any other Open-Source project nowadays unfortunately. I dont even mention closed source SDKs that change on monthly or weekly basis and you have nothing to say just to chase the rabbit. I feel your pain because I face the same problems for a long time. There is however a difference in enforcing changes just to make things "modern" or adding modern stuff in best-effort incremental way respecting the old-school engineering rules that I think we follow here in NuttX. Problems happen everywhere. The problem is what you do with the problem. Creating your own RTOS may be a solution but you will eventually face the same problems. In the long term it may cost you even more than just helping us from time to time to make things right. > goodbye. > Sebastien This is your decision Sebastien, and we respect it. Hopefully you will reconsider and help up make things good in the process, hands-on, with the tools that we have available. You are always welcome back!! Thank you and take care! Tomek -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
