Hold on Alan, I think we should have a vote on it. I also think it needs some more discussion to decide on a way to approach making the new HAL since there seems to be some opposing views about forking, making a custom one, etc.
It hasn't been very long since we opened this thread, maybe we can reach out to our Espressif contributors directly to ask them for comment in case they did not monitor this thread. Best, Matteo On Thu, Aug 6, 2026 at 11:02 AM Alan C. Assis <[email protected]> wrote: > Ok, since we didn't hear from Espressif contributors and everybody agreed > it is better to have a HAL under NuttX than under an external company, > let's create it. > > BR, > > Alan > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2026 at 2:48 PM Alan C. Assis <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Yes, I agree we need a common agreement to implement such modification. > > And today we are more divided about AI usage. > > > > But I agree we are discussing two or three separated things. > > > > Let's return to the main issue. First we need to know if the Espressif > > contributors agree to contribute to a esp-hal hosted on NuttX side. > > > > BR, > > > > Alan > > > > On Wednesday, August 5, 2026, Matteo Golin <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >> > I disagree with the suggestion that those interested in exploring > this > >> path should just create a separate experimental project. In an > open-source > >> community, every contribution and idea is valuable, even if it > introduces > >> disagreement or ultimately fails. > >> > >> Yes, in spirit. This is why the idea is being discussed here. But > >> ultimately, without consensus, we can't just have everyone's > experimental > >> ideas merged into NuttX to succeed/fail there. That is why we are > >> discussing it first. NuttX mainline is not a playground for anything, > >> that's why we take pains to ask for testing logs and get proper PR > >> descriptions. > >> > >> The ESP HAL is used in many devices. One such device is my ESP32 based > >> rocket altimeter. This altimer is responsible for deploying parachutes > on > >> my very expensive rocket. If that goes wrong, my rocket crashes and I > lose > >> a lot of money and time. I don't want to rely on an experimental, AI > >> written HAL for this. I much prefer the iterated, strictly tested and > >> maintained HAL by the company itself. A NuttX written HAL would need to > be > >> well tested, understood and maintained for me to want to make the > switch. > >> These changes have real consequences, and for companies much larger than > >> just lowly old me and my hobby rockets. Keeping guarantees for users is > >> the > >> utmost concern and we always need to weigh that when considering > options. > >> We are unfortunately not free to just experiment with anything in > mainline > >> when we'd like. > >> > >> Matteo > >> > >> On Wed, Aug 5, 2026, 12:52 p.m. Matteo Golin <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > >> > What Raiden mentioned is right: AI generated or not, this is something > >> we > >> > have to discuss with the Espressif maintainers. They are incredibly > >> active > >> > and keep our ESP support up to date. As much as I want our own NuttX > >> HAL, > >> > we have to decide if it's worth trading for the burden of having our > >> own, > >> > non-Espressif maintainers for it. I'm incredibly against the AI > rewrite, > >> > but at this time I would also be against a by-hand rewrite unless we > >> > somehow get continued support maintaining it, either by Espressif or > >> other > >> > devs, at the level we get from Espressif right now. That kind of > >> maintainer > >> > work is super valuable to NuttX, which already has few maintainers. > >> > > >> > Also, respectfully, thinking that a new HAL rewritten to follow NuttX > >> > idioms will have bit-by-bit identical output to the original ESP HAL > is > >> > wishful thinking. All kinds of things, including internal data > >> structures, > >> > will be different. Unless I am misunderstanding that proposition, that > >> is > >> > definitely not going to work as a testing plan for a new HAL. > >> > > >> > Matteo > >> > > >> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2026, 12:44 p.m. Tomek CEDRO <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > >> >> On Wed, Aug 5, 2026 at 4:27 PM Marco C. <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> >> > Let me try to explain the methodology so you can open your mind: > >> >> > (..) > >> >> > Open your mind. Peace. > >> >> > Marco Casaroli > >> >> > >> >> We are open-minded Marco, very, it is highly unfair to say we are > not. > >> >> > >> >> You need to take into a consideration that all NuttX related work is > >> >> done in our free time at the expense of any other tasks sometimes our > >> >> families and so called private human life. > >> >> > >> >> We are also people taking personal responsibility for the products > >> >> development, its delivery, and maintenance. If things take too > complex > >> >> and too long to deliver we are out of business. If things fail on > >> >> production we are out of business. If we are unable to maintain and > >> >> service products we are out of business. This out of business also > >> >> means measurable financial responsibility. > >> >> > >> >> Most of us are owners of the company, business, product. We have > >> >> experiences that made us have solid stand on the ground and think the > >> >> way we think. Its okay to play around and experiment, but its not > okay > >> >> to impose experiments on everyone around, like so called modern world > >> >> does right now. We cannot build without solid foundations, when all > >> >> components change all the time, including software and recently even > >> >> hardware components. Its a big complex mess right now. We do not want > >> >> to make it worse or even take part ourselves. This is clearly > >> >> destructive. > >> >> > >> >> We can play around but then we need to provide alternative path to be > >> >> selected, while foundations must remain rock solid, so people have > >> >> choice. I understand you use free AI to create stuff, but in the end > >> >> there are living humans paying bills daily that need to process that > >> >> also for free in their free time. > >> >> > >> >> My proposition for the people with lots of free time is to create an > >> >> experimental but separate AI NuttX rewrite and see how it goes. It > >> >> should be a win-win scenario where we can cope with basic tasks in > >> >> NuttX while the other project may explore new worlds. > >> >> > >> >> Peace :-) > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >
