Hi Alan, Please: west is a zephyr project tool. It seems the hal_espressif is using and extending the zephyr west tools. The author you mention is a maintainers of the west tool.
Take some time before accusing me of anything (you did this twice now). Kind regards, Jehudi On Fri, Aug 7, 2026, 22:14 Alan C. Assis <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Jehudi, > > That is not true, see: > > > https://github.com/zephyrproject-rtos/hal_espressif/commit/dd4e8e1caf9b15e960adc87e41dbf988b06e54cc > > There are more than 13K PR on their hal, I just spend 15s to find this > commit from https://www.linkedin.com/in/pdgendt/ > > What next lie you want me to prove false? :-D > > BR, > > Alan > > > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2026 at 4:58 PM Laczen JMS <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hi Alan, > > > > I think you are overlooking something: the hal_espressif under zephyr is > > maintained by espressif, there are no (non-espressif) zephyr maintainers > > doing merges. The same is valid for hal from other vendors. > > > > If this method of working would be reflected in NuttX it would be just > the > > same as we have today only the location will be different. As soon as > > (non-espressif) maintainers start doing merges, no matter how well > > intended, this could result in maintenance problems. > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Jehudi > > > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2026, 21:38 Alan C. Assis <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Hi Jehudi, > > > > > > I think you didn't understand the main idea, that explains why you > > thought > > > it was disrespectful. > > > > > > Our proposal is to have esp-hal-3rdp inside github/NuttX and not "make > a > > > fork and take over maintenance". > > > > > > It is not a fork, it will be transferred to NuttX, to be maintained the > > > same way Zephyr/HAL is done there. > > > > > > Why is it better? > > > - Espressif committers will have write access to it the same way they > > > already have on esp-hal in espressif repository > > > - If Espressif employees are busy with other duties and can't review > the > > > PRs, we can do it > > > - Since the original esp-hal was transferred to NuttX github, there is > no > > > downstream issue involved > > > > > > BR, > > > > > > Alan > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2026 at 3:31 PM Laczen JMS <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Alan, > > > > > > > > All I stated was that the discussion was disrespectful to espressif > > > > maintainers: make a fork and take over maintenance, have AI rewrite > it, > > > ... > > > > > > > > I agree that NuttX is probably not getting the same attention as > zephyr > > > > from espressif. Just accept this. > > > > > > > > The NuttX support from espressif is among the best of any hardware > > > > provider. > > > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > > > Jehudi > > > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2026, 18:32 Alan C. Assis <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Jehudi, > > > > > > > > > > First of all, I'm not disrespectful to Espressif or any contributor > > > from > > > > > there. > > > > > > > > > > So, when you are saying that I was not respectful to Espressif you > > have > > > > > been disrespectful to me! > > > > > > > > > > As I said before, Espressif deserves all our respect and > > consideration > > > > > because they are one of few companies to contribute to the NuttX. > > > > > > > > > > But you need to understand the employees from Espressif are not > full > > > time > > > > > dedicated to support NuttX, they have other priorities and it is > > fine. > > > > > > > > > > If Espressif doesn't have many companies using NuttX with their > chips > > > > they > > > > > are free to relocate these employees to work in other projects. > > > > > > > > > > And in fact one of the reasons that I decided to leave Espressif > was > > > > > because they could relocate to work on Zephyr or other project > that I > > > was > > > > > not interested in. > > > > > > > > > > The esp-hal-3rdparty is used only by NuttX, it is not used by > Zephyr > > or > > > > any > > > > > other project, and as you can see it not maintained the same way as > > > > Zephyr > > > > > HAL. > > > > > > > > > > And I think now you touched on an important point: "they both start > > > from > > > > > esp-idf and then patches are applied", that is the idea our > > > contributors > > > > > can help to do it and avoid waiting a long time for a simple fix. > > > > > > > > > > BR, > > > > > > > > > > Alan > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2026 at 1:09 PM Laczen JMS <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Alan, > > > > > > > > > > > > Why should this be under NuttX, what is the difference whether > the > > > code > > > > > is > > > > > > under NuttX or under espressif. The maintainers would be the > same. > > > The > > > > > > espressif_hal under zephyr is not maintained by zephyr > maintainers, > > > it > > > > is > > > > > > maintained by espressif. The same is valid for other hals, they > are > > > > > > maintained by the companies that provide the hardware. > > > > > > > > > > > > This whole discussion has been disrespectful for the maintainers > > from > > > > > > espressif, and the reason for bringing it up questionable (and > was > > > > taken > > > > > > care of by espressif). Was this proposed PR even required, was it > > the > > > > > best > > > > > > solution, ... questions that are left unanswered. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding how the hal is created, as far as I know they both > start > > > from > > > > > > esp-idf and then patches are applied. When a major release of > > esp-idf > > > > is > > > > > > done a major sync appears. I think this is a good method. > Whenever > > > > > changes > > > > > > are proposed to the hal this method needs to be taken into > > > > consideration, > > > > > > preferably change a patch and not code. This is the only way we > can > > > be > > > > > sure > > > > > > to have fast support for new devices. The same is true for the > hal > > > used > > > > > in > > > > > > zephyr, although I think that there they are going to see a > blowup > > in > > > > > > maintenance because they are changing code instead of patches. > > > > > > > > > > > > IMHO the best is to leave as is, give a gentle reminder when > > > something > > > > is > > > > > > stuck. > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Jehudi > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2026, 17:37 Alan C. Assis <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Matteo, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly, that is what I was saying. They can contribute > directly > > > to a > > > > > HAL > > > > > > > inside GitHub/NuttX. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are already contributors outside Espressif with great > > > knowledge > > > > > > about > > > > > > > their chips, they could contribute to this HAL without waiting > > days > > > > or > > > > > > > months to get it on the HAL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think Felipe Moura already found and fixed many issues > himself, > > > so > > > > it > > > > > > > shows that we have users willing to help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BR, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Aug 7, 2026 at 11:58 AM Matteo Golin < > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Espressif always said it would conform to community > rules; > > > > > hence, > > > > > > > why > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > have been absent. The community must decide first, and then > > we > > > > can > > > > > > see > > > > > > > > > whether the contribution is feasible. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think Espressif has at least done very well in engaging > with > > > the > > > > > > > > community. As > > > > > > > > I mentioned, you are responsive to raised issues even if > > recently > > > > > there > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > been other things taking your time instead of patching them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) We do not block contributions, and we never saw > ourselves > > as > > > > > > > 'owning' > > > > > > > > > Espressif support in NuttX. We do have opinions, and we do > > try > > > to > > > > > > > > optimize, > > > > > > > > > and we do listen to others. We actually expect more people > > > > willing > > > > > to > > > > > > > > help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you, Tiago! I wouldn't say you 'own' it, but you are in > > our > > > > > > > > CODEOWNERS for > > > > > > > > all the Espressif devices because your reviews and > > understanding > > > > are > > > > > > > > invaluable > > > > > > > > for us merging patches. I think that you guys have done an > > > > excellent > > > > > > job > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > it, I don't think I've ever had to request changes on patches > > > from > > > > > the > > > > > > > > Espressif > > > > > > > > team. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Espressif already maintains the HAL of Zephyr (inside > Zephyr > > > > repo), > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > is completely different from that esp-hal used by NuttX. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alan, I had no idea! I thought the Zephyr HAL was also built > on > > > top > > > > > the > > > > > > > > same ESP > > > > > > > > HAL we're using. If this is true, then maybe with Tiago's > > > internal > > > > > > > > escalation > > > > > > > > Espressif might be willing to help us maintain our own HAL? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > Matteo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I won't justify HAL, pros, cons, and such. I escalated this > > > > > > internally, > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > I have some answers: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Espressif always said it would conform to community > rules; > > > > > hence, > > > > > > > why > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > have been absent. The community must decide first, and then > > we > > > > can > > > > > > see > > > > > > > > > whether the contribution is feasible. > > > > > > > > > 2) We do not block contributions, and we never saw > ourselves > > as > > > > > > > 'owning' > > > > > > > > > Espressif support in NuttX. We do have opinions, and we do > > try > > > to > > > > > > > > optimize, > > > > > > > > > and we do listen to others. We actually expect more people > > > > willing > > > > > to > > > > > > > > help. > > > > > > > > > 3) So far, the discussed options were: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Total AI rewrite (I assume at the register level). > > > > > > > > > - Fork, taking it from there - maybe going Zephyr style. > > > > > > > > > - Replacing HAL slowly, piece by piece. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tiago > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Em sex., 7 de ago. de 2026 às 09:27, Alan C. Assis < > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > escreveu: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Matteo, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you summarized it very well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tomek, Nathan and Alin, I think you are missing an > > important > > > > > point: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/zephyrproject-rtos/hal_espressif > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Espressif already maintains the HAL of Zephyr (inside > > Zephyr > > > > > repo), > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > is completely different from that esp-hal used by NuttX. > > > > > > > > > > You can see it by looking at the history, they submit > > commits > > > > > > mostly > > > > > > > > > > daily, including PR from esp-hal maintainer that are > there > > > but > > > > > are > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > ESP-HAL repo. > > > > > > > > > > The only reason that esp-hal exists is because we > > (including > > > > /me > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > Espressifer at that time) knew that NuttX was not open to > > > > using a > > > > > > HAL > > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > > Zephyr was doing and will not create a esp-hal for us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It could sound ironic, but maybe it makes more sense for > > > NuttX > > > > to > > > > > > use > > > > > > > > > > Zephyr HAL directly, at least we know they are taking > care > > of > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BR, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2026 at 4:28 PM Matteo Golin < > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> These are all true points. I also think the decision > about > > > the > > > > > ESP > > > > > > > > HAL was > > > > > > > > > >> made before my time, so I wouldn't know if there was a > > vote > > > or > > > > > > not. > > > > > > > > That > > > > > > > > > >> shouldn't stop us from conducting proper votes going > > > forward, > > > > > > > though. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> For the record, I'm on-board with the fork that we can > > > submit > > > > > > > patches > > > > > > > > to. > > > > > > > > > >> This is actually a similar approach my rocketry team > takes > > > > with > > > > > > > NuttX; > > > > > > > > > >> they > > > > > > > > > >> have a custom fork to get their own driver stuff in so > > they > > > > can > > > > > > > > continue > > > > > > > > > >> development, and then submit the drivers upstream when > > they > > > > are > > > > > > > ready > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > >> go > > > > > > > > > >> through the re-formatting/review process to make them > > > better. > > > > I > > > > > am > > > > > > > > pretty > > > > > > > > > >> certain Xiaomi also does this, and of course PX4 is > > similar. > > > > It > > > > > > > seems > > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > >> a fork is a good idea for us here, because it's a > > buffering > > > > > point > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > us > > > > > > > > > >> to > > > > > > > > > >> get the benefits of our patches before they get > > up-streamed > > > to > > > > > > > > Espressif, > > > > > > > > > >> if ever. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> Laczen is right that we would need to figure out where > to > > > host > > > > > the > > > > > > > > fork > > > > > > > > > >> and > > > > > > > > > >> who will maintain the fork (i.e. do we even both > spending > > CI > > > > > > > > resources on > > > > > > > > > >> it or just continue with the NuttX CI and take up-stream > > > > > backports > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > face > > > > > > > > > >> value with the expectation that Espressif CI has tested > > > them). > > > > > In > > > > > > > > terms of > > > > > > > > > >> formatting, I think we should keep whatever formatting > > > method > > > > > > > > Espressif > > > > > > > > > >> has. If it's a fork external to the kernel then there is > > no > > > > need > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > comply > > > > > > > > > >> with the NuttX style guide for now, since re-formatting > > > would > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > >> back-porting changes a nightmare. If we ever transition > to > > > > > > replacing > > > > > > > > parts > > > > > > > > > >> of the HAL within our own kernel tree, then we can > format > > > > > > according > > > > > > > > to the > > > > > > > > > >> style guide. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> Best, > > > > > > > > > >> Matteo > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2026 at 3:02 PM Alan C. Assis < > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > Hi Laczen, > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > That was what I asked in some previous emails, but it > > > seems > > > > > like > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > >> are > > > > > > > > > >> > not looking at our mailing list, so I'm copying Tiago > > (the > > > > > repo > > > > > > > > > >> > maintainer). > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > As he already explained in the issue from June, he is > > very > > > > > busy > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > >> other > > > > > > > > > >> > high-priorities duties at Espressif. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > Tiago, if you had time to read this discussion, please > > let > > > > me > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > >> whether > > > > > > > > > >> > it is fine for you to submit a contribution to our HAL > > > fork? > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > We understand that Espressif has its own agenda and > > maybe > > > > > NuttX > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > not a > > > > > > > > > >> > priority, but I believe that an open-source project > > should > > > > > have > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > >> right > > > > > > > > > >> > to move on without being blocked by that same agenda. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > BR, > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > Alan > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > On Thu, Aug 6, 2026 at 3:48 PM Laczen JMS < > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > I don't think it is a good idea to quickly create a > > > fork. > > > > > > When a > > > > > > > > fork > > > > > > > > > >> > > is created some expectations need to be clear: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > 1. Who will maintain it and ensure that new devices > > are > > > > > added, > > > > > > > > > >> > > 2. What are the rules this fork should comply with > > (e.g. > > > > > code > > > > > > > > > >> > formatting), > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > Why not first set the rules (if any), and if there > are > > > no > > > > > (if > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > agree > > > > > > > > > >> > > so) ask the current maintainers of esp_hal_3rdparty > if > > > > they > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > >> > > do it under nuttx (cfg zephyr). > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > BR, > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > Jehudi > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > Op do 6 aug 2026 om 20:02 schreef Felipe Moura > > Oliveira > > > < > > > > > > > > > >> > > [email protected]>: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > Unfortunately, I was not here when the dependency > on > > > > > > > Espressif's > > > > > > > > > >> > > 3rd-party > > > > > > > > > >> > > > repository was added. I tracked it down, and it > was > > > > > > introduced > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > >> PR: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > https://github.com/apache/nuttx/pull/8816. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > File: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/nuttx/blob/17f7f6e86d9c045df53c65213d0c83487746d61d/arch/risc-v/src/espressif/Make.defs#L40-L59 > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > At that time, I was not on this mailing list. > Could > > > > > someone > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > >> that > > > > > > > > > >> > > > period check if a formal vote was held regarding > the > > > > > > adoption > > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > >> > kernel > > > > > > > > > >> > > > dependency on an external repository? > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > If no vote was conducted back then, creating a > fork > > of > > > > the > > > > > > > > 3rd-party > > > > > > > > > >> > > > repository and bringing it under the NuttX > > > organization > > > > > will > > > > > > > > correct > > > > > > > > > >> > this > > > > > > > > > >> > > > point. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > Em qui., 6 de ago. de 2026 às 14:43, Matteo Golin > < > > > > > > > > > >> > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > escreveu: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > I believe it would still be a code change, since > > our > > > > > fork > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > >> > diverge > > > > > > > > > >> > > and > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > it will also presumably be used instead of the > ESP > > > HAL > > > > > in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > >> kernel > > > > > > > > > >> > at > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > some point. I just think the vote would be > useful > > in > > > > > case > > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > > >> > > disagree > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > with the fork approach. It also a rather major > > > change. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Matteo > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2026, 1:35 p.m. Felipe Moura > > > Oliveira < > > > > > > > > > >> > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Since creating a fork of a repository and > > > initially > > > > > > using > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > >> > "as-is" > > > > > > > > > >> > > does > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > not involve any actual code modifications, > > would a > > > > > > formal > > > > > > > > vote > > > > > > > > > >> ? In > > > > > > > > > >> > > other > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > words, we aren’t change any code. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > *--Felipe Moura de Oliveira* > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Linkedin < > > > > > > > > https://www.linkedin.com/in/felipe-oliveira-75a651a0> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Thu, 6 Aug 2026 at 13:09 Gregory Nutt < > > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > >> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Apache votig rules for code changes work > > > > > differently. > > > > > > > See > > > > > > > > > >> Votes > > > > > > > > > >> > on > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > code > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > modification > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > in > > > https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html > > > > > > > > Basically > > > > > > > > > >> all > > > > > > > > > >> > > voting > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > members have a veto right and can stop any > > code > > > > > > change. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > So, it is important to get concurrence > before > > > the > > > > > vote > > > > > > > > or, at > > > > > > > > > >> > > least, > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > assure that no one is dramatically opposed > to > > > any > > > > > code > > > > > > > > change. > > > > > > > > > >> > > This is > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > where you get to use you people skills and > > power > > > > of > > > > > > > > > >> persuasion. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > From: Matteo Golin <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2026 8:51 AM > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > To: [email protected] < > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Discussing the governance of > > > NuttX’s > > > > > > > > > >> > esp-hal-3rdparty > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > dependency > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Hold on Alan, I think we should have a vote > on > > > > it. I > > > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > >> think > > > > > > > > > >> > it > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > needs > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > some more discussion to decide on a way to > > > > approach > > > > > > > > making the > > > > > > > > > >> > new > > > > > > > > > >> > > HAL > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > since there seems to be some opposing views > > > about > > > > > > > forking, > > > > > > > > > >> > making a > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > custom > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > one, etc. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > It hasn't been very long since we opened > this > > > > > thread, > > > > > > > > maybe we > > > > > > > > > >> > can > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > reach > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > out to our Espressif contributors directly > to > > > ask > > > > > them > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > >> > comment > > > > > > > > > >> > > in > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > case > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > they did not monitor this thread. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Matteo > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2026 at 11:02 AM Alan C. > Assis > > < > > > > > > > > > >> [email protected] > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Ok, since we didn't hear from Espressif > > > > > contributors > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > >> > > everybody > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > agreed > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > it is better to have a HAL under NuttX > than > > > > under > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > >> external > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > company, > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > let's create it. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > BR, > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Alan > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2026 at 2:48 PM Alan C. > > Assis < > > > > > > > > > >> > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Yes, I agree we need a common agreement > to > > > > > > implement > > > > > > > > such > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > modification. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > And today we are more divided about AI > > > usage. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > But I agree we are discussing two or > three > > > > > > separated > > > > > > > > > >> things. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Let's return to the main issue. First we > > > need > > > > to > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > >> the > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Espressif > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > contributors agree to contribute to a > > > esp-hal > > > > > > hosted > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > >> NuttX > > > > > > > > > >> > > side. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > BR, > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Alan > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, August 5, 2026, Matteo > > Golin < > > > > > > > > > >> > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > I disagree with the suggestion that > > > those > > > > > > > > interested > > > > > > > > > >> in > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > exploring > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> path should just create a separate > > > > experimental > > > > > > > > project. > > > > > > > > > >> In > > > > > > > > > >> > an > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > open-source > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> community, every contribution and idea > is > > > > > > valuable, > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > >> if > > > > > > > > > >> > it > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > introduces > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> disagreement or ultimately fails. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Yes, in spirit. This is why the idea is > > > being > > > > > > > > discussed > > > > > > > > > >> > here. > > > > > > > > > >> > > But > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> ultimately, without consensus, we can't > > > just > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > >> everyone's > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > experimental > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> ideas merged into NuttX to succeed/fail > > > > there. > > > > > > That > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > >> why > > > > > > > > > >> > we > > > > > > > > > >> > > are > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> discussing it first. NuttX mainline is > > not > > > a > > > > > > > > playground > > > > > > > > > >> for > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > anything, > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> that's why we take pains to ask for > > testing > > > > > logs > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > get > > > > > > > > > >> > > proper PR > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> descriptions. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> The ESP HAL is used in many devices. > One > > > such > > > > > > > device > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > >> my > > > > > > > > > >> > > ESP32 > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > based > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> rocket altimeter. This altimer is > > > responsible > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > >> deploying > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > parachutes > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> my very expensive rocket. If that goes > > > wrong, > > > > > my > > > > > > > > rocket > > > > > > > > > >> > > crashes > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > and > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > lose > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> a lot of money and time. I don't want > to > > > rely > > > > > on > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > >> > > experimental, > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > AI > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> written HAL for this. I much prefer the > > > > > iterated, > > > > > > > > > >> strictly > > > > > > > > > >> > > tested > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> maintained HAL by the company itself. A > > > NuttX > > > > > > > > written HAL > > > > > > > > > >> > > would > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > need > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> well tested, understood and maintained > > for > > > me > > > > > to > > > > > > > > want to > > > > > > > > > >> > make > > > > > > > > > >> > > the > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > switch. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> These changes have real consequences, > and > > > for > > > > > > > > companies > > > > > > > > > >> much > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > larger > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> just lowly old me and my hobby rockets. > > > > Keeping > > > > > > > > > >> guarantees > > > > > > > > > >> > for > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > users > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> the > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> utmost concern and we always need to > > weigh > > > > that > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > >> > > considering > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > options. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> We are unfortunately not free to just > > > > > experiment > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > >> > > anything in > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > mainline > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> when we'd like. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Matteo > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> On Wed, Aug 5, 2026, 12:52 p.m. Matteo > > > Golin > > > > < > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > What Raiden mentioned is right: AI > > > > generated > > > > > or > > > > > > > > not, > > > > > > > > > >> this > > > > > > > > > >> > is > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > something > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> we > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > have to discuss with the Espressif > > > > > maintainers. > > > > > > > > They > > > > > > > > > >> are > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > incredibly > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> active > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > and keep our ESP support up to date. > As > > > > much > > > > > > as I > > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > > >> our > > > > > > > > > >> > > own > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > NuttX > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> HAL, > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > we have to decide if it's worth > trading > > > for > > > > > the > > > > > > > > burden > > > > > > > > > >> of > > > > > > > > > >> > > having > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> own, > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > non-Espressif maintainers for it. I'm > > > > > > incredibly > > > > > > > > > >> against > > > > > > > > > >> > > the AI > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > rewrite, > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > but at this time I would also be > > against > > > a > > > > > > > by-hand > > > > > > > > > >> rewrite > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > unless > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > somehow get continued support > > maintaining > > > > it, > > > > > > > > either by > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Espressif > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> other > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > devs, at the level we get from > > Espressif > > > > > right > > > > > > > now. > > > > > > > > > >> That > > > > > > > > > >> > > kind of > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> maintainer > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > work is super valuable to NuttX, > which > > > > > already > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > few > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > maintainers. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Also, respectfully, thinking that a > new > > > HAL > > > > > > > > rewritten > > > > > > > > > >> to > > > > > > > > > >> > > follow > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > NuttX > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > idioms will have bit-by-bit identical > > > > output > > > > > to > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > >> > > original ESP > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > HAL > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > wishful thinking. All kinds of > things, > > > > > > including > > > > > > > > > >> internal > > > > > > > > > >> > > data > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> structures, > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > will be different. Unless I am > > > > > misunderstanding > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > proposition, > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> is > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > definitely not going to work as a > > testing > > > > > plan > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > >> new > > > > > > > > > >> > > HAL. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Matteo > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Wed, Aug 5, 2026, 12:44 p.m. Tomek > > > > CEDRO < > > > > > > > > > >> > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> On Wed, Aug 5, 2026 at 4:27 PM Marco > > C. > > > < > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > Let me try to explain the > > methodology > > > so > > > > > you > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > >> open > > > > > > > > > >> > > your > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > mind: > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > (..) > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > Open your mind. Peace. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > Marco Casaroli > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> We are open-minded Marco, very, it > is > > > > highly > > > > > > > > unfair to > > > > > > > > > >> > say > > > > > > > > > >> > > we > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > are > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > not. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> You need to take into a > consideration > > > that > > > > > all > > > > > > > > NuttX > > > > > > > > > >> > > related > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > work > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> done in our free time at the expense > > of > > > > any > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > >> tasks > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > sometimes > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> families and so called private human > > > life. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> We are also people taking personal > > > > > > > responsibility > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > >> the > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > products > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> development, its delivery, and > > > > maintenance. > > > > > If > > > > > > > > things > > > > > > > > > >> > take > > > > > > > > > >> > > too > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > complex > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> and too long to deliver we are out > of > > > > > > business. > > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > > >> things > > > > > > > > > >> > > fail > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > on > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> production we are out of business. > If > > we > > > > are > > > > > > > > unable to > > > > > > > > > >> > > maintain > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> service products we are out of > > business. > > > > > This > > > > > > > out > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > >> > > business > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > also > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> means measurable financial > > > responsibility. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Most of us are owners of the > company, > > > > > > business, > > > > > > > > > >> product. > > > > > > > > > >> > We > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > have > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> experiences that made us have solid > > > stand > > > > on > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > >> ground > > > > > > > > > >> > and > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > think > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> way we think. Its okay to play > around > > > and > > > > > > > > experiment, > > > > > > > > > >> but > > > > > > > > > >> > > its > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > not > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > okay > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> to impose experiments on everyone > > > around, > > > > > like > > > > > > > so > > > > > > > > > >> called > > > > > > > > > >> > > modern > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > world > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> does right now. We cannot build > > without > > > > > solid > > > > > > > > > >> > foundations, > > > > > > > > > >> > > when > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > all > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> components change all the time, > > > including > > > > > > > > software and > > > > > > > > > >> > > recently > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> hardware components. Its a big > complex > > > > mess > > > > > > > right > > > > > > > > > >> now. We > > > > > > > > > >> > > do > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > not > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> to make it worse or even take part > > > > > ourselves. > > > > > > > > This is > > > > > > > > > >> > > clearly > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> destructive. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> We can play around but then we need > to > > > > > provide > > > > > > > > > >> > alternative > > > > > > > > > >> > > path > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> selected, while foundations must > > remain > > > > rock > > > > > > > > solid, so > > > > > > > > > >> > > people > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> choice. I understand you use free AI > > to > > > > > create > > > > > > > > stuff, > > > > > > > > > >> but > > > > > > > > > >> > > in > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > the > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > end > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> there are living humans paying bills > > > daily > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > need > > > > > > > > > >> to > > > > > > > > > >> > > process > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> also for free in their free time. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> My proposition for the people with > > lots > > > of > > > > > > free > > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > >> is > > > > > > > > > >> > to > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > create > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> experimental but separate AI NuttX > > > rewrite > > > > > and > > > > > > > see > > > > > > > > > >> how it > > > > > > > > > >> > > goes. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> should be a win-win scenario where > we > > > can > > > > > cope > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > >> basic > > > > > > > > > >> > > tasks > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> NuttX while the other project may > > > explore > > > > > new > > > > > > > > worlds. > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Peace :-) > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> -- > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, > > > > > http://www.tomek.cedro.info > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > -- > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > *--Felipe Moura de Oliveira* > > > > > > > > > >> > > > Linkedin < > > > > > > > https://www.linkedin.com/in/felipe-oliveira-75a651a0> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Matteo Golin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
