Thank you folks for your feedback. Based on everyone's input, I think
perhaps a good way to move forward is by creating a JIRA and making a
patch for a PoC.

I think altering the OFBiz help system for now might be a bigger task,
so for a start, I think I will write some documentation in multiple
places and then let gradle consolidate that into an output manual.
Then, based on feedback from you we decide on the next step.

So I will proceed with creating a JIRA for an initial PoC. Again,
thank you for your thoughts, all constructive and valuable.

On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 11:47 AM, Jacques Le Roux
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Sharan,
>
> Yes I'm pretty sure we will still need the wiki. For technical points which
> don't specially fit in source and also some kind of user documentation, but
> the less the better.
>
> Jacques
>
>
> Le 18/10/2017 à 10:28, Sharan Foga a écrit :
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> I would say the first and easier focus is to complete the online help.
>> Telling people how to use the screens and applications is a basic
>> requirement that we haven't fulfilled for OFBiz yet.  Once we have that then
>> we can see how it can be expanded to incorporate more general details. I
>> think the issue we have had over the years is that OFBiz is so big that it's
>> difficult to know where to start.
>>
>> At least if we can give people information about the application they are
>> using, and how to use the screens, then that will give them enough to get
>> going. For content we could review the existing help that we have and update
>> it into a standard format or template so that it is consistent.
>>
>> We may also find that we still need the wiki for something so let's see
>> what happens
>>
>> Thanks
>> Sharan
>>
>> On 2017-10-17 13:21, Jacques Le Roux <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes thanks Taher to have picked this again,
>>>
>>> I agree with all what have been said so far.
>>>
>>> You know my preference for asscidoc and asciidoctor. Using the
>>> asciidoctor Gradle plugin seems logical to me.
>>>
>>> I'm all for having all the documentation inside the source. I had even
>>> created a Jira for that https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-9423
>>>
>>> Questions:
>>>
>>>   1. Should we continue to provide an online help? Would we reuse/upgrade
>>> the current one?
>>>   2. Where to put the common documentation? In common or commonext
>>> component or in a new documentation folder? Later seems easier for newbies,
>>> name
>>>      says all.
>>>   3. I use pandoc to create (from some .md files) md.html files in
>>> tools\wiki-files imported in wiki pages. I regularly use a .bat for that.
>>> Would we
>>>      replace also our current .md files?
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 17/10/2017 à 11:25, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>
>>>> Big +1 for this initiative!
>>>>
>>>> I have not much to add to Taher's proposal and Sharan's viewpoint.
>>>>
>>>> I assume that we can use any Asciidoc editor and need not to use
>>>> Asciidoctor?
>>>>
>>>> I think we have to decide what we will do with our Wiki based
>>>> documentation then. If we have up-to-date documentation in the components
>>>> and can
>>>> generate up-to-date documentation every night, pretty much of the Wiki
>>>> documentation would be obsolete. A simple link to the generated
>>>> documentation
>>>> would be enough, right?
>>>>
>>>> For new code in framework and plugins, I would strongly recommend to
>>>> have mandatory documentation as part of the first commit to the codebase to
>>>> assure a good initial start.
>>>>
>>>> I think we should just start with a proof-of-concept by moving some
>>>> small part of the documentation to Asciidoc and into the codebase.
>>>>
>>>> Would be a great starting point for new contributors also.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 17.10.17 um 10:30 schrieb Sharan Foga:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Taher
>>>>>
>>>>> It's great that this conversation has started again. It would be great
>>>>> to actually start to do something about the integrated help system within
>>>>> OFBiz itself. We have found limitations with the docbook implementation
>>>>> we have, so now have a better idea of what we want to achieve.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the past we've talked a lot about DITA but to me it seemed a lot
>>>>> more complex to understand, structure and generally get started. I've
>>>>> briefly
>>>>> played about with Ascidoc and it seems pretty simple enough to get the
>>>>> hang of and that to me is an important thing. I also like the idea of 
>>>>> being
>>>>> able to render multiple formats (and it would be good to make them look
>>>>> nicer and easier to read).
>>>>>
>>>>> Getting a good and functioning help framework into our codebase is long
>>>>> overdue and I'm sure will add some great benefits and also encourage
>>>>> documentation contributions from our community.
>>>>>
>>>>> Big +1 from me!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> Sharan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 17/10/17 10:01, Taher Alkhateeb wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello Folks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We've had this discussion multiple times in the past, but I think I
>>>>>> have a more concrete idea this time for solving this problem. In the
>>>>>> past few weeks we've been working internally in Pythys to figure out
>>>>>> the best way to write and distribute documentation, and I think most
>>>>>> of that is applicable to OFBiz.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In a nutshell, here is the idea (practically) for how to proceed:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - The documentation language to use is Asciidoc
>>>>>> - The documentation tool is Asciidoctor
>>>>>> - Publishing happens through Gradle using the asciidoctor gradle
>>>>>> plugin (not the OFBiz framework or anything else).
>>>>>> - The only place where we write documentation is inside the code base
>>>>>> - Every component contains its own documentation
>>>>>> - General documentation goes to either a standalone directory or a
>>>>>> generic component like common or base
>>>>>> - As much as possible, documentation files are small and focused on
>>>>>> one topic. And then other longer documents are constructed from these
>>>>>> snippets of documentation.
>>>>>> - We publish to all formats including PDF for users, or HTML for
>>>>>> embedded help and wiki pages. So OFBiz does not parse docbook for its
>>>>>> help system, instead it just renders generated HTML.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I've worked extensively with Asciidoc I find it easy to pickup
>>>>>> (like markdown) but also modular (like docbook and dita). It's also
>>>>>> neat that you can sprinkle variables all around in your document so
>>>>>> that update is no longer a painful grepping process.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would love to hear your thoughts on this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Taher Alkhateeb
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>

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