Inline Cheers, Ruppert
On Mar 7, 2010, at 7:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: > From: "Tim Ruppert" <[email protected]> >> It IS news when there is a new tutorial out there. It is not news when you >> are doing marketing. That sounds like a reasonable place to draw the line. >> For instance, I don't put my blog messages up there when they're not going >> to directly help users - just like Wikipedia, only the facts. We haven't >> put up one message about any of our twitter feeds, social networking angles, >> new websites, all promotion stuff. What Hans put in there is straight up >> promotion. > > I'm alone to be worried when in the last 12 news, 8 come from HotWax Media? > Should this continue in the same way, in the same place? I don't think that we should be in trouble for being the only ones who are blogging relevant tutorials and help in the community. Should we stop doing that because no one else does? Are people enjoying it - judging from the responses, I would say hell yeah. I have no problem moving this stuff to another place - none at all - but since there isn't much news beyond tutorials that are put out there, it certainly would make our "In the News" section look super stale - which would work against us. My vote is to leave it as is - but add some sort of self promotion area if people can't do that on their own site after people hit their link in the Service Providers section. >> Now back to my original request before we've now tried a bunch of different >> ways to self promote: >> >> 1. Remove the original commit >> - Hans did this on the first one and I think needs to do this again. > > I don't think it's needed if Hans give all commiters the credentials. Then we > could put back the Twetter button which is think is a great idea. Regardless, this isn't news Jacques unless it's something that the PMC has added as something we want to support. It still looks like it's project based - but UNTIL that is the case, then we should remove it and add it back when it is vetted. >> 2. Work out a strategy, together, on first IF the community wants to >> maintain a twitter feed, and secondly how we'll go about distributing the >> load so that this isn't some burden. >> - First IF - then HOW. >> - This should be easy as Jacques said >> -- All ocmmitters have access > -- There is discussion around what information goes in there. > > I don't think we need to share before as long as we keep it clean. Note that > what Hans did so far was quite clean. It was not a problem about the content > but, I repeat: > * ASF trademark in domain name > * ASF trademark on account page (name + logo) > without being endorsed by the community and validated by PMC > >> -- The Bio and information about it show it only as a community effort. > Yes, this is not yet clean either Agreed. But IMO all of this needs to be cleaned up before it sits on the home page as something that the project is endorsing. >> Please note that in 919997 I have removed a link to a blog message that sat >> directly on the line between marketing and help for the user. This will >> hopefully set a trend of the types of news that we populate that section >> with. > > I appreciate the effort Tim, and I agree with the logic behind it. But what > if everybody wrote a note in his blog and put a line there? Would it be a > news war, as we have a commits war currently :/ The more news the better. I don't believe we should let people throw up all of their marketing material, but tutorials and real wire based news seemed to always fit in here. > Are these essentials news? Should we not create a section for this type of > information as I suggested (the name may vary)? As I said above, and in another email, I think that self promotion should be kept off of our home page - this is about the project and not about even the people working on the project. We have links to service provider pages, that's a great place to put your own self promotion about your new websites, your new clients, your new twitter feeds, etc. I don't care where we put the tutorials that you think are deluging the News section - I vote for News because there IS NO other news out there at the moment and this keeps the content of our pages changing. Again, you will see no self promotion in our tutorials - they are only to help (but they do reside on our servers :) ). > I try to find a good solution, thanks for your help > > Jacques > >> Cheers, >> Ruppert >> >> On Mar 7, 2010, at 3:37 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: >> >>> Hi Jacopo, >>> >>> For me all the "news" from service providers are not real news because >>> 1) there is nothing new in them >>> 2) they are not external to the project, so I think they devaluate the >>> other news (how insiders can be objective?) >>> 3) some service providers may trust this place as an area for their >>> marketing stuff (do you really need names?) >>> >>> They looks more as marketing stuff to me . >>> On the other hand most of them contain valuable information, notably for >>> educating new comers and such. >>> So that's why I suggest to separate them from "real news" (external >>> objective news) in a new section "Help from service providers" >>> >>> Jacques >>> >>> From: "Jacopo Cappellato" <[email protected]> >>>> Hi Jacques, >>>> >>>> On Mar 7, 2010, at 10:25 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote: >>>> >>>>> Also I wonder if we should not restrict the New section at >>>>> http://ofbiz.apache.org/ to real news and not service providers marketing. >>>> >>>> Could you please show some examples of news items that should not be there? >>>> >>>> Jacopo >>>> >>>>> Because this is really devaluating the news IMO. We could though >>>>> introduce a new section for this kind of "news", what about "Services >>>>> providers help you" >>>>> >>>>> Jacques >>>>> >>>>> From: "Jacques Le Roux" <[email protected]> >>>>>> Hey guys, >>>>>> >>>>>> This could be so easy :/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Hans agreed to give the credentials to all commiters but he asked us to >>>>>> send him a demand. >>>>>> We don't need to ask, if it's open Hans sould send all commiters the >>>>>> credential to share apache_ofbiz Twitter account. >>>>>> I should be pretty clear at this moment. The works "Apache" "OFBiz" and >>>>>> the phrase "Apache OFBiz" are ASF trademarks: >>>>>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ (I use references to sections of >>>>>> this page in the following) >>>>>> So they can't be used in domain name (cf. section "Using Apache >>>>>> trademarks in domain names"). Hans can't use >>>>>> http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz alone as an individual or for his >>>>>> company. >>>>>> So please, for the last time, Hans before I ring Shane Curcuru's bell >>>>>> (current VP, Apache Brand Management), simply send credentials to all >>>>>> commiters and the war is over (Note that, though I don't think it's the >>>>>> way to go, I already asked you to send me credentials as you suggested, >>>>>> but did not receive anything yet). Then I suggest to put the button like >>>>>> you did Hans. It's a *great idea* and I'm sure you will appreciate to >>>>>> have an help on feeding the tweets as you already suggested. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz is a special case because not only it >>>>>> uses ASF trademark in domain name but it also shows it on the page, >>>>>> along with OFBiz logo not going back to http://ofbiz.apache.org/ (cf. >>>>>> section "Using the Apache Foo (and similar) graphic logos") >>>>>> But I don't see a reason why the rule for the domain should not apply >>>>>> also to >>>>>> http://twitter.com/ofbiz_help >>>>>> http://twitter.com/ofbizbyhotwax >>>>>> And Hans just followed the path actually... (is there other cases?) >>>>>> >>>>>> Some other points which are related and worth to be noted >>>>>> Hotwax Media must care about how they use the OFBiz logo in their pages >>>>>> at http://www.hotwaxmedia.com. The rule is that if it's not adapted >>>>>> (like Hans did for OFBiz in Thailand at , it should only link back to >>>>>> http://ofbiz.apache.org/ >>>>>> Same for the footer of http://www.antwebsystems.com/control/main (the >>>>>> "OFBiz feather" used for the tweet could be ok if all commiters get >>>>>> credentials and the PMC agree is the OFBiz official Tweeter account). >>>>>> Now http://www.ofbiz.in.th/ is wrong also as long it's not on the ASF >>>>>> infra (ofbiz should not be used in domain name outsided of ASF >>>>>> infrastructure, is there other cases?) >>>>>> >>>>>> It's time to clean the house, before all this becomes unmanageable >>>>>> (proliferation). I made my best to explain the rules, if you see a flaw >>>>>> in my reasoning please correct me. If you see other cases that should be >>>>>> corrected, chime in, it's your duty! >>>>>> >>>>>> And please also understand that it's really not pleaseant for me (or >>>>>> anyone else I guess) to play the cop and spend so much time on this (for >>>>>> persons out of PMC, we already shared some about this privately). I dot >>>>>> it only because I'm a third party (ie not HWM affiliated nor Ant Web) >>>>>> and I like things to be clear and no injustices prevail. If we continue >>>>>> to ignore this facts they will finally blow up in our faces (as this >>>>>> Tweeter account issue being to show) and nobody will win anything. There >>>>>> are rules, why not simply follow them, is that so hard? >>>>>> >>>>>> Jacques >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: "Tim Ruppert" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Hans, please revert this one too - sorry. It wouldn't make sense for >>>>>>> all service providers to do this - so please let's not keep doing this >>>>>>> stuff. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What i would recommend for this kind of stuff, if we need to list it >>>>>>> at all, would be to enhance the service providers page on the wiki. I >>>>>>> mentioned this earlier but maybe we should add a full page, linked >>>>>>> from the service provider page, where people can put this type of >>>>>>> info? I personally think this is what your own website is for, but >>>>>>> I'm all for enhancing everyone's ability to get the word out. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What does everyone think of that as a place to promote yourself? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Ruppert >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Tim Ruppert >>>>>>> HotWax Media >>>>>>> http://www.hotwaxmedia.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> o:801.649.6594 >>>>>>> f:801.649.6595 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2010, at 7:22 PM, Scott Gray <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm only going to send one email about this, If anyone else cares >>>>>>>> they can push it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is news: >>>>>>>>> <a href="http://www.twitter.com/apache_ofbiz/"; target="_blank">Now >>>>>>>>> OFBiz on <b>TWITTER</b>, follow the news from an enduser >>>>>>>>> perspective</a>, up to one tweet per day. >>>>>>>> A link to your home page is not: >>>>>>>>> You can also promote OFBiz at your site with this news, look <a >>>>>>>>> href="http://www.antwebsystems.com";>here for an example.</a> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Why you are constantly trying to push the boundaries I have no idea. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>> Scott >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 6/03/2010, at 6:14 PM, [email protected] wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Author: hansbak >>>>>>>>> Date: Sun Mar 7 01:14:19 2010 >>>>>>>>> New Revision: 919905 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=919905&view=rev >>>>>>>>> Log: >>>>>>>>> announcing the ofbiz twitter news now in line with the other news >>>>>>>>> offerings. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Modified: >>>>>>>>> ofbiz/site/index.html >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Modified: ofbiz/site/index.html >>>>>>>>> URL: >>>>>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/ofbiz/site/index.html?rev=919905&r1=919904&r2=919905&view=diff >>>>>>>>> === === === >>>>>>>>> ===================================================================== >>>>>>>>> --- ofbiz/site/index.html (original) >>>>>>>>> +++ ofbiz/site/index.html Sun Mar 7 01:14:19 2010 >>>>>>>>> @@ -237,6 +237,7 @@ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> <h2>In the News</h2> >>>>>>>>> <ul> >>>>>>>>> + <li><a href="http://www.twitter.com/ >>>>>>>>> apache_ofbiz/" target="_blank">Now OFBiz on <b>TWITTER</b>, follow >>>>>>>>> the news from an enduser perspective</a>, up to one tweet per day. >>>>>>>>> You can also promote OFBiz at your site with this news, look <a >>>>>>>>> href="http://www.antwebsystems.com";>here for an example.</a></li> >>>>>>>>> <li><a >>>>>>>>> href="http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blog/ofbiz-tutorial-implementing-a-product-pdf-export/ >>>>>>>>> " target="_blank">OFBiz Tutorial – Implementing a Product PDF >>>>>>>>> export</a> on <a href="http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blo >>>>>>>>> g/" target="_blank">HotWax Media Blog</a></li> >>>>>>>>> <li><a >>>>>>>>> href="http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blog/ofbiz-tutorial-implementing-a-product-csv-export/ >>>>>>>>> " target="_blank">OFBiz Tutorial – Implementing a Product CSV >>>>>>>>> export</a> on <a href="http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blo >>>>>>>>> g/" target="_blank">HotWax Media Blog</a></li> >>>>>>>>> <li><a >>>>>>>>> href="http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blog/ofbiz-tutorial-enhancing-the-product-list-screen/ >>>>>>>>> " target="_blank">OFBiz Tutorial – Enhancing the Product list >>>>>>>>> screen</a> on <a href="http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blo >>>>>>>>> g/" target="_blank">HotWax Media Blog</a></li> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > >
