Not much more to say, inline...
From: "Tim Ruppert" <[email protected]>
Inline
Cheers,
Ruppert
On Mar 7, 2010, at 7:35 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
From: "Tim Ruppert" <[email protected]>
It IS news when there is a new tutorial out there. It is not news when you are doing marketing. That sounds like a reasonable
place to draw the line. For instance, I don't put my blog messages up there when they're not going to directly help users -
just like Wikipedia, only the facts. We haven't put up one message about any of our twitter feeds, social networking angles,
new websites, all promotion stuff. What Hans put in there is straight up promotion.
I'm alone to be worried when in the last 12 news, 8 come from HotWax Media? Should this continue in the same way, in the same
place?
I don't think that we should be in trouble for being the only ones who are blogging relevant tutorials and help in the community.
Should we stop doing that because no one else does? Are people enjoying it - judging from the responses, I would say hell yeah.
This is all good, and as I said of great value. It's the only the place that worries me. I prefer to have less news but more
credible as news (from outside) and not so repetitive.
I have no problem moving this stuff to another place - none at all - but since there isn't much news beyond tutorials that are put
out there, it certainly would make our "In the News" section look super stale - which would work against us.
As I said I feel otherwise. Of course if I'm alone it's maybe only a feeling and we can forget that. But will we not end with almost
only news from HWM, for the moment it looks like that...
My vote is to leave it as is - but add some sort of self promotion area if people can't do that on their own site after people hit
their link in the Service Providers section.
Now back to my original request before we've now tried a bunch of different
ways to self promote:
1. Remove the original commit
- Hans did this on the first one and I think needs to do this again.
I don't think it's needed if Hans give all commiters the credentials. Then we could put back the Twetter button which is think is
a great idea.
Regardless, this isn't news Jacques unless it's something that the PMC has added as something we want to support. It still looks
like it's project based - but UNTIL that is the case, then we should remove it and add it back when it is vetted.
You mean Hans's last news, right? Then I agree, still some problems where the
link points
2. Work out a strategy, together, on first IF the community wants to maintain a twitter feed, and secondly how we'll go about
distributing the load so that this isn't some burden.
- First IF - then HOW.
- This should be easy as Jacques said
-- All ocmmitters have access
-- There is discussion around what information goes in there.
I don't think we need to share before as long as we keep it clean. Note that what Hans did so far was quite clean. It was not a
problem about the content but, I repeat:
* ASF trademark in domain name
* ASF trademark on account page (name + logo)
without being endorsed by the community and validated by PMC
-- The Bio and information about it show it only as a community effort.
Yes, this is not yet clean either
Agreed. But IMO all of this needs to be cleaned up before it sits on the home
page as something that the project is endorsing.
Please note that in 919997 I have removed a link to a blog message that sat directly on the line between marketing and help for
the user. This will hopefully set a trend of the types of news that we populate that section with.
I appreciate the effort Tim, and I agree with the logic behind it. But what if everybody wrote a note in his blog and put a line
there? Would it be a news war, as we have a commits war currently :/
The more news the better. I don't believe we should let people throw up all of their marketing material, but tutorials and real
wire based news seemed to always fit in here.
Are these essentials news? Should we not create a section for this type of
information as I suggested (the name may vary)?
As I said above, and in another email, I think that self promotion should be kept off of our home page - this is about the project
and not about even the people working on the project. We have links to service provider pages, that's a great place to put your
own self promotion about your new websites, your new clients, your new twitter feeds, etc. I don't care where we put the
tutorials that you think are deluging the News section - I vote for News because there IS NO other news out there at the moment
and this keeps the content of our pages changing. Again, you will see no self promotion in our tutorials - they are only to help
(but they do reside on our servers :) ).
I'd prefer them to be in the wiki for instance. We could share them more there. We could have an open section in wiki with
"Tutorials" link pointing to it at top of the site main page.
Jacques
I try to find a good solution, thanks for your help
Jacques
Cheers,
Ruppert
On Mar 7, 2010, at 3:37 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
Hi Jacopo,
For me all the "news" from service providers are not real news because
1) there is nothing new in them
2) they are not external to the project, so I think they devaluate the other
news (how insiders can be objective?)
3) some service providers may trust this place as an area for their marketing
stuff (do you really need names?)
They looks more as marketing stuff to me .
On the other hand most of them contain valuable information, notably for
educating new comers and such.
So that's why I suggest to separate them from "real news" (external objective news) in a new section "Help from service
providers"
Jacques
From: "Jacopo Cappellato" <[email protected]>
Hi Jacques,
On Mar 7, 2010, at 10:25 AM, Jacques Le Roux wrote:
Also I wonder if we should not restrict the New section at http://ofbiz.apache.org/ to real news and not service providers
marketing.
Could you please show some examples of news items that should not be there?
Jacopo
Because this is really devaluating the news IMO. We could though introduce a new section for this kind of "news", what about
"Services providers help you"
Jacques
From: "Jacques Le Roux" <[email protected]>
Hey guys,
This could be so easy :/
Hans agreed to give the credentials to all commiters but he asked us to send
him a demand.
We don't need to ask, if it's open Hans sould send all commiters the credential
to share apache_ofbiz Twitter account.
I should be pretty clear at this moment. The works "Apache" "OFBiz" and the phrase "Apache OFBiz" are ASF trademarks:
http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ (I use references to sections of this page in the following)
So they can't be used in domain name (cf. section "Using Apache trademarks in domain names"). Hans can't use
http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz alone as an individual or for his company.
So please, for the last time, Hans before I ring Shane Curcuru's bell (current VP, Apache Brand Management), simply send
credentials to all commiters and the war is over (Note that, though I don't think it's the way to go, I already asked you to
send me credentials as you suggested, but did not receive anything yet). Then I suggest to put the button like you did Hans.
It's a *great idea* and I'm sure you will appreciate to have an help on feeding the tweets as you already suggested.
http://twitter.com/apache_ofbiz is a special case because not only it uses ASF trademark in domain name but it also shows it
on the page, along with OFBiz logo not going back to http://ofbiz.apache.org/ (cf. section "Using the Apache Foo (and
similar) graphic logos")
But I don't see a reason why the rule for the domain should not apply also to
http://twitter.com/ofbiz_help
http://twitter.com/ofbizbyhotwax
And Hans just followed the path actually... (is there other cases?)
Some other points which are related and worth to be noted
Hotwax Media must care about how they use the OFBiz logo in their pages at http://www.hotwaxmedia.com. The rule is that if
it's not adapted (like Hans did for OFBiz in Thailand at , it should only link back to http://ofbiz.apache.org/
Same for the footer of http://www.antwebsystems.com/control/main (the "OFBiz feather" used for the tweet could be ok if all
commiters get credentials and the PMC agree is the OFBiz official Tweeter account). Now http://www.ofbiz.in.th/ is wrong
also as long it's not on the ASF infra (ofbiz should not be used in domain name outsided of ASF infrastructure, is there
other cases?)
It's time to clean the house, before all this becomes unmanageable (proliferation). I made my best to explain the rules, if
you see a flaw in my reasoning please correct me. If you see other cases that should be corrected, chime in, it's your duty!
And please also understand that it's really not pleaseant for me (or anyone else I guess) to play the cop and spend so much
time on this (for persons out of PMC, we already shared some about this privately). I dot it only because I'm a third party
(ie not HWM affiliated nor Ant Web) and I like things to be clear and no injustices prevail. If we continue to ignore this
facts they will finally blow up in our faces (as this Tweeter account issue being to show) and nobody will win anything.
There are rules, why not simply follow them, is that so hard?
Jacques
From: "Tim Ruppert" <[email protected]>
Hans, please revert this one too - sorry. It wouldn't make sense for all service providers to do this - so please let's
not keep doing this stuff.
What i would recommend for this kind of stuff, if we need to list it at all, would be to enhance the service providers
page on the wiki. I mentioned this earlier but maybe we should add a full page, linked from the service provider page,
where people can put this type of info? I personally think this is what your own website is for, but I'm all for
enhancing everyone's ability to get the word out.
What does everyone think of that as a place to promote yourself?
Cheers,
Ruppert
--
Tim Ruppert
HotWax Media
http://www.hotwaxmedia.com
o:801.649.6594
f:801.649.6595
On Mar 6, 2010, at 7:22 PM, Scott Gray <[email protected]> wrote:
I'm only going to send one email about this, If anyone else cares they can
push it.
This is news:
<a href="http://www.twitter.com/apache_ofbiz/"; target="_blank">Now OFBiz on <b>TWITTER</b>, follow the news from an
enduser perspective</a>, up to one tweet per day.
A link to your home page is not:
You can also promote OFBiz at your site with this news, look <a href="http://www.antwebsystems.com";>here for an
example.</a>
Why you are constantly trying to push the boundaries I have no idea.
Regards
Scott
On 6/03/2010, at 6:14 PM, [email protected] wrote:
Author: hansbak
Date: Sun Mar 7 01:14:19 2010
New Revision: 919905
URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=919905&view=rev
Log:
announcing the ofbiz twitter news now in line with the other news offerings.
Modified:
ofbiz/site/index.html
Modified: ofbiz/site/index.html
URL:
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/ofbiz/site/index.html?rev=919905&r1=919904&r2=919905&view=diff
=== === ===
=====================================================================
--- ofbiz/site/index.html (original)
+++ ofbiz/site/index.html Sun Mar 7 01:14:19 2010
@@ -237,6 +237,7 @@
<h2>In the News</h2>
<ul>
+ <li><a href="http://www.twitter.com/ apache_ofbiz/" target="_blank">Now OFBiz on <b>TWITTER</b>,
follow the news from an enduser perspective</a>, up to one tweet per day. You can also promote OFBiz at your site with
this news, look <a href="http://www.antwebsystems.com";>here for an example.</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blog/ofbiz-tutorial-implementing-a-product-pdf-export/
" target="_blank">OFBiz Tutorial – Implementing a Product PDF export</a> on <a
href="http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blo g/" target="_blank">HotWax Media Blog</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blog/ofbiz-tutorial-implementing-a-product-csv-export/
" target="_blank">OFBiz Tutorial – Implementing a Product CSV export</a> on <a
href="http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blo g/" target="_blank">HotWax Media Blog</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blog/ofbiz-tutorial-enhancing-the-product-list-screen/
" target="_blank">OFBiz Tutorial – Enhancing the Product list screen</a> on <a
href="http://www.hotwaxmedia.com/apache-ofbiz-blo g/" target="_blank">HotWax Media Blog</a></li>
