I mostly agree.

Maybe we should have several parameter groups - eg system parameters, those
to change with care
On Apr 24, 2013 2:32 PM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:

> If that param is part of the Administration > Configuration I would propose
> to have a general review which of those parameters of the config.xml.
> Maybe even more of them should be moved to the database then.
>
> This is our current client side config file:
>
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openmeetings/trunk/singlewebapp/WebContent/openmeetings/config.xml?view=co&content-type=text%2Fplain
>
> Candidates the can be moved to the database are ... all ?
>
> I don't see a lot of sense if trying to follow two different approaches and
> having multiple places for config's.
> It will just lead to feedback that was given in the past like "OpenMeetings
> configuration is spread around a dozen of files"
>
> Seems like a majority of people would prefer a database solution.
>
> So one potential fix or idea would be for example to create the config.xml
> via a Servlet dynamically.
>
> That way the client can have still a very easy way of loading the config
> file by simply parsing it.
> And you can generate the config.xml dynamically on server side based on
> database values.
>
> From that point of view _any_ value of the config.xml could immediately
> move to the database.
> We just have to keep in mind that this config.xml can be retrieved
> anonymously, so it makes no sense to put any security sensible data into
> it.
> But it would for example simplify some of our current docs as there is no
> separated configuration for client and server needed, like potentially the
> port configuration.
>
> Would do folks think about that idea?
>
> Sebastian
>
>
>
> 2013/4/24 Alexei Fedotov <[email protected]>
>
> > @Sebastian
> > As for hardware, we used jabra.
> > On Apr 24, 2013 12:54 PM, "Vasya" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > +1 for database
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Vasiliy
> > >
> > >
> > > On 24.04.2013 14:49, Maxim Solodovnik wrote:
> > >
> > >> I would prefer Admin->configuration since it is migrated while OM
> > upgrades
> > >> But config.xml requires less code changes :)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 2:40 PM, [email protected] <
> > >> [email protected]> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>  The basic rule so far was to put client side/ UI / layout settings in
> > the
> > >>> config.xml.
> > >>> The config.xml is parsed by both SWFs (SWF8 and SWF10) on startup one
> > >>> time.
> > >>> So it is also rather easy compared to have a database value that then
> > has
> > >>> to be somehow loaded to the client.
> > >>>
> > >>> Sebastian
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> 2013/4/24 Artyom Horuzhenko <[email protected]>
> > >>>
> > >>>  What kind of solution would be better for switching codecs, AEC, EM
> > and
> > >>>> echo suppression: using config.xml or "Configuration" in the
> > >>>> "Administration" menu?
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> 2013/4/23 Joseph Karwat <[email protected]>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  IMHO. When something does not work well users generally ask for
> help
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> from
> > >>>
> > >>>> their service provider.  In our shop our staff explains AEC issues
> to
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> end
> > >>>
> > >>>> users and works with them to resolve the issue.  Having AEC as an
> easy
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> to
> > >>>
> > >>>> enable/disable user option, is very helpful in providing the type of
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> end
> > >>>
> > >>>> user support that will enable widespread adoption of OM.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I'd be pleased to work with the group to formally test AEC and
> > resolve
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> this
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> issue.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Joseph Karwat | 415-462-0263 | JellVideo | www.jellnet.com |
> > >>>>> JELL NETWORKS, INC.
> > >>>>> Enterprise Video Collaboration Solutions
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Click Here to Register for your JellVideo Collaboration Account
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
> > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 1:53 AM
> > >>>>> To: dev
> > >>>>> Subject: Re: AEC in the new release
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> IMHO having yet another checkbox where the user can decide to
> enable
> > or
> > >>>>> disable AEC can be only an additional thing on top of a general
> > system
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> wide
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> configuration.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The problem with this is for example that the average user does not
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> even
> > >>>
> > >>>> know what AEC means.
> > >>>>> Or what is the difference between hardware echo cancellation and
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> software
> > >>>
> > >>>> echo cancellation ?!
> > >>>>> So what would be the benefit for him in having a checkbox tagged
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> "enabled
> > >>>
> > >>>> AEC" ?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> One of the concerns people have against OpenMeetings is its
> > complexity.
> > >>>>> They just want to conference and not bother around with a lot of
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> options.
> > >>>
> > >>>> I would also not disable the AEC feature by default as long as there
> > is
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> no
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> concrete use-case where AEC (or enhancedMicro mode) leads to an
> > issue.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Same for h264. There was a discussion that included h264 a couple
> of
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> weeks
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> ago:
> > >>>>> http://markmail.org/message/**fctg6eo5qf5hhcaa<
> > http://markmail.org/message/fctg6eo5qf5hhcaa>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The consens was:
> > >>>>>   - The amount of CPU that our clients needed more was not
> > measurable.
> > >>>>>   - There is no concrete use case where enabling or disabling h264
> > >>>>> would
> > >>>>> improve anything I agree that having a config for the Video codec,
> > same
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> as
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> the Microphone Mode, would be nice.
> > >>>>> But changing any defaults now back and forth without concrete use
> > cases
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> and
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> some kind of test plan does not make a lot of sense to me.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> So what I would propose is:
> > >>>>>   - Make Microphone and VideoCodec configurable and documentate
> this
> > >>>>>   - Set up a concrete test plan and communicate that through our
> > >>>>> mailing
> > >>>>> lists.
> > >>>>> Based on the feedback we might then discuss changing some defaults.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Sebastian
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> 2013/4/23 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>  My previous comment was regarding video codec Auto selecting h264
> > >>>>>> based on SIP setting is not a good idea IMHO
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Artyom Horuzhenko <
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> [email protected]
> > >>>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>> Usually (for example, in Linphone) echo cancellation option is
> > >>>>>>> available for every user. In my opinion it would be better to
> allow
> > >>>>>>> users to decide use echo cancellation or not because its
> efficiency
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> depends on hardware.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> 2013/4/23 Maxim Solodovnik <[email protected]>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>  Maybe it is better to make it configurable somehow? config.xml
> is
> > >>>>>>>> good candidate IMHO
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 2:56 PM, Artyom Horuzhenko
> > >>>>>>>> <[email protected]
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> Hello,
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> I suppose using h264 would be necessary only in SIP rooms, for
> > >>>>>>>>> all
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> other
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> rooms - codec which used before (h263?). It avoids any
> > >>>>>>>>> suspections
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> about
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> h264 issues and increses performance. I'm also going to
> > >>>>>>>>> implement
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> switching
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> microphone mode in the audio/video test dialog. Is there
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> anybody
> > >>>
> > >>>> who disagree with this idea?
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> 2013/4/23 Alexei Fedotov <[email protected]>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>  That would be great!
> > >>>>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2013 5:36 AM, "Maxim Solodovnik"
> > >>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> @Alexei this definitely can be done in realtime, BUT ... :)
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> The setting affects Working microphone so it is impossible
> > >>>>>>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> ON/OFF
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> it
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> while speaking :(
> > >>>>>>>>>>> The only option I can see is to add dropdown control to
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> testSetupDialog
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> (the one with choose camera and test recording). So we can
> > >>>>>>>>>>> have
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> something
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> like:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> 1) default system setting (can be moved to
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Admin->configuration
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> avoid
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> rewriting it after each upgrade)
> > >>>>>>>>>>> 2) per user setting stored in LocalData (like rememberLogin
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> default
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> cam/mic
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> etc.)
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> using above scheme user can change the setting while
> > >>>>>>>>>>> entering the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> room
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> or
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> "re-sync" audio/video
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> What do you think?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 3:24 AM, Joseph Karwat <
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>  We tested AEC out-of-the-box. We just installed and ran a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> meeting
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> in
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> OM2.1- Litle or no echo.  We then, using the exact same
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> configuration,
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> logged in to an OM2.0 server and ran a meeting. We
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> experienced
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> substantial
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> echo. We were both running a PC with Flash echo
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> cancellation on
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> but
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> no
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> hardware echo cancelation.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Also for OM2.1 Where do I set the buffer lenghth?  Are
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> there
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> any
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> other
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> parameters/options I  should know about?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Joseph Karwat | CEO | 415-462-0263 | JellVideo |
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> www.jellnet.com|
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> JELL NETWORKS, INC.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Enterprise Video Collaboration Solutions
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Click Here to Register for your JellVideo Collaboration
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Account
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Alexei Fedotov [mailto:alexei.fedotov@gmail.**com<
> > [email protected]>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> ]
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 12:49 PM
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected]
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: AEC in the new release
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Joseph, which devices show improvement? Which buffer
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> length did
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> you
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> use?
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> I like the suggestion - Maxim, how is it possible to
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> configure
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> AEC
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> in
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> realtime?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 22, 2013 11:30 PM, "Joseph Karwat"
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> We have a test OM2.1 server installed at AWS running
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Unbuntu
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> 12.04.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> We tested AEC this morning for the first time and it
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> did
> > >>>
> > >>>> seem
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> make
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> the audio work very well.  Little if no echo.  We still
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> need
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> test
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> under a wide range of scenarios, but we are encouraged
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> by the performance this morning.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> If you do make it a configurable setting. It should be
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> an
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> option
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> when
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> setting up the room or allow the individual user to
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> enable/disabe
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> AEC
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> when in a conference room.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Making it a system-wide configuration option will delay
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> testing
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> adoption.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> We will be conducting further testing of AEC over the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> next
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> few
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> days
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> and will report back with our findings.  Anyone wishing
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> participate
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> in our AEC testing is encouraged to contact me.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Joseph Karwat |415-462-0263 | JellVideo |
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> www.jellnet.com |
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> JELL
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> NETWORKS, INC.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Enterprise Video Collaboration Solutions
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Click Here to Register for your JellVideo Collaboration
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Account
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Alexei Fedotov [mailto:alexei.fedotov@gmail.**com<
> > [email protected]>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ]
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 12:49 AM
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> To: dev; [email protected]
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: AEC in the new release
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> There are no answers. My point here is that we can be
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> 100%
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> sure
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> that
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> today AEC does not work as expected, and provides
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> distinctive
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> high
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> quality echo in 100% of situations when users use
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> separate
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> dynamic
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> microphone systems.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> The new thing is AEC mechanism sometimes meddles with
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> hardware
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> echo
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> cancellation support providing temporary sound outages.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> It
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> also
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> provides visible de-synchronization between sound and
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> video
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> channels.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> If someone has a different experience, please, speak
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> up.
> > >>>
> > >>>> So I have two ideas to speak of. 1. Disable AEC in
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> openmeetings
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> releases by default. It takes a simple configuration
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> change
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> enable
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> it. 2. Later understand when AEC really works, and fix
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> it.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Folks, please again let me know if you disagree and
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> have
> > >>>
> > >>>> beneficial
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> AEC experience.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями, Alexei
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Fedotov
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> /
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Алексей
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Федотов, http://dataved.ru/
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> +7 916 562 8095
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 11:11 PM, Alexei Fedotov
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello guys,
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> How AEC (acoustic echo cancellation) works for you in
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> new
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> release?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Can anyone share usage experience?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями, Alexei
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Fedotov
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> /
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Алексей Федотов, http://dataved.ru/
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> +7 916 562 8095
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>>>>>> WBR
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Maxim aka solomax
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>>> WBR
> > >>>>>>>> Maxim aka solomax
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> --
> > >>>>>> WBR
> > >>>>>> Maxim aka solomax
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --
> > >>>>> Sebastian Wagner
> > >>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_**lock <
> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
> > >
> > >>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
> > >>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.**com <http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
> >
> > >>>>> [email protected]
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Sebastian Wagner
> > >>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_**lock <https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
> >
> > >>> http://www.webbase-design.de
> > >>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.**com <http://www.wagner-sebastian.com>
> > >>> [email protected]
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Sebastian Wagner
> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
> http://www.webbase-design.de
> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
> [email protected]
>

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