>> (Note this discussion is going to be difficult because we are posting >> between two lists.)
Adding back marketing, who are doing wonderful work. On Feb 21, 2013, at 2:23 PM, Rob Weir wrote: > On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote: >> >> On Feb 20, 2013, at 8:13 AM, Samer Mansour wrote: >> >>> Hello AOO Dev and Marketing Community, >>> >>> The main subject of this e-mail is to call for an end date to proposals. >>> In 72hrs (saturday) we will be closing branding proposals. >>> >>> - - - - - >>> >>> I am heading up the branding effort for the AOO 4.0 release and we can >>> unanimously agree the 4.0 release will be a milestone for our community and >>> users. For this special release the marketing team is taking on the effort >>> to giving us a fresh look. >>> >>> The marketing team is starting to plot deadlines at the same time as the >>> dev team, the marketing team can't keep proposing ideas forever, we >>> actually need to do the work to get us there. Specially because some dev >>> efforts require assets from our designers. >>> >>> What does that mean? >>> - We're picking and choosing. Late submissions might not be considered >>> (just the nature of "just do it" sorry). >>> - Eliminating designs we don't like and smoothing and integrating ones we >>> do like. >>> - In a week from Saturday we will have a master proposal to present for >>> lazy consensus. (at least that's the plan) >> >> I do not think that this can operate as lazy consensus,. it is a process >> that is more opinion based than most. >> >> It is possible that the Marketing team can make some discussions, but the >> community may have other preferences. >> > > Indeed I assume there would be many opinions. But in the discussion > that had lead up to this has noted that there are well-established > design and marketing best practices for logo desgin, and giving some > trust to those volunteers with knowledge of these disciplines might > yield a better result that throwing it out to a general vote of 400 > subscribers to the dev list and their individual non-expert opinions. > > Now you could argue that opinions of non-experts is useful, and what > the general public thinks is important. True, but that is better done > with an expertly-designed survey of the general public, not by > bikeshedding on the dev list. The opinions of non-experts are useful and that is a fact. This is not general public opinion it is the AOO community. An expertly designed survey is often called a BALLOT. Please design one to either validate a single decision, or to choose between a few of the designs so that the result is not a fait accompli. Validation is good. > We've kicked the can down the road with regards to a grand contest for > almost a year now. We're no closer to than we were when we started. > Do we want to ship 4.0 with a half-assed logo attempt done at the last > minute? Or do we want to let the marketing experts push this forward. Straw man. One year ago we had maybe 2 or 3 logo proposals. Now there are several logos and designs proposed and only a few are IMO half-assed. Many IMO are excellent! > And remember, if someone really doesn't like the output of this > process, they can object and offer an alternative at any time. But I > don't think we can force a volunteer, or group of volunteers, to > pursue a contest versus an approach based on best practices and > working with a small set of already-active volunteers. Three points. (1) There is a public solicitation for proposals. These submissions must be fairly treated. (2) No force is involved. Just a suggestion and a reminder that LAZY CONSENSUS should not be assumed. If necessary we can design a ballot on the dev list. (3) The only legitimate VETO here is if the Logo and Design selected infringed or nearly infringed on another's mark (like one subtly does), or if it were somehow foul and offensive in some culture. In that case the technical alternative is to choose one of the non-infringing or insulting logos or designs. A VETO is a "let's discuss this" it must not be a "your work is awful take it back." This argues that the sooner the community agrees the better. The Apache Way is about the flattest hierarchy possible. Decisions are to made (validated) on the dev list. Thanks and Regards, Dave > > Regards, > > -Rob > >> I don't think that we need to be afraid of having a VOTE. Rules can be >> generated and this dev list can tolerate the extra traffic. >> >> I participated in a two round vote for Apache Flex. There were over 50 >> entries. Each ballot had 5 votes which allowed people with strong opinions >> to vote for one logo and others who liked many designs could split their >> vote. >> >> (Note this discussion is going to be difficult because we are posting >> between two lists.) >> >>> >>> How can you help? >>> - - - - - >>> - I have design skills! (or I think!) >>> -> Check out some guidelines and placements of the branding, see children >>> of this cwiki page: >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project >>> -> Go to our wiki and sketch out some ideas here: >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.x+-+Logo+Explorations >>> -> They don't have to be complete or polished ideas, ie. you only have >>> ideas for icons and only have 2 hours to create the proposal, capture the >>> main idea but don't worry about detail. >>> -> Join the marketing mailing list to help us with implementing the final >>> design: https://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/call_for_marketing_volunteers >>> >>> - I don't have design skills?! >>> -> Go to our wiki and help us by commenting on designs, DO NOT reply with >>> comments about design in these mailing lists. >>> -> There is about 10 pages and they all could use some feedback in the >>> comments: >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4.0+Brand+Refresh+Project >>> -> I will call for any final discussion on Saturday once the deadline has >>> passed. >> >> I have added comments including the volunteer and organization hurdles to >> make certain branding changes. >> >> Regards, >> Dave >> >>> >>> If you have any concerns about this process reply here. >>> >>> Do not reply to this e-mail to talk about designs! Go to the wiki and add >>> design comments there! >>
