Oh, sorry Tony.  I was hoping other on AOO could supply what they know of this 
I was clear that the project has responsibilities for (1) and thank you for 
clarifying (2-3) which appear to be in dangerous shape.  Thanks for clarifying 
that these are AOO responsibilities in particular.

I would like to know who are providing effort in categories (2-3) at the moment 
and also their view of the situation and the required capabilities.

I suppose any retiring incumbents can also specify what the qualifications for 
a successor are and then we can see who is equipped to perform such work.

 - - - - - - -

It seems the next question is to understand the desired state we want for the 
MediaWiki (that's the one?) and the Forums in terms of sustainable operational 
support and what is a roadmap that can get us there.

We also need to look at the most urgent steps and the least that can provide 

Is that what you see needed at this rather high level?

Finally, assuming it could be done, is there any benefit to Puppet for 
non-Infrastructure usage or are we talking about a regime that is specific to 
operation under ASF Infra?

 - - - - - - -

It should be obvious that I am an Infrastructure dufus.  

Yet I think the AOO community needs to have a clear picture and also awareness 
of the gravity of the support that is required to be provided by the project.

 - Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Stevenson [mailto:t...@pc-tony.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 14:42
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; orc...@apache.org
Subject: Re: QUESTIONS RE: Maintenance of AOO Wiki and Forum

On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 02:23:48PM -0700, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> Thanks Tony, this reminds me of some questions that would help us understand 
> what is involved.  These questions are anyone knowledgable of the current 
> arrangements:
> I see four levels of support to wikis and forums:
>  1. User Account and Content Administration
>     I believe this is handed.  Does anyone believe it is not?

How do you mean handled? This function is managed within the two
products by those who manage them already. In other words this is fully
devolved to the AOO PMC to determine how this should be managed.

>  2. Administering the Running Service
>     That is, a server administrator for the service (not necessarily the host)
>     Is this done?  Do we need a replacement or an expansion here?  What are 
> prerequisite qualifications for being able to do this.

Again this is down to the PMC to determine how to best do this.  Right
now Infra provide a number of VMs for AOO to run the service on. This is
mostly due to significant historical inertia when AOO first joined the
ASF, but also because it is what the PMC wanted to make their lives

If you want these to be come more managed by Infra then a significant
number of changes would need to be made to make this happen.  Not least
of which is moving the system into Puppet. This is a non-trivial piece
of work which I'd estimate would take a member of paid staff at least
4-6 weeks to complete (minimum). 

>  3. Administrating the Server that hosts the Service
>     I assume this is where one deals with Ubuntu upgrades and such, whether 
> the server is real or virtual.
>     Is this provided by the project?  Do we need a replacement/expansion here 
> from within the project?  Again, what are prerequisite qualifications?

Again, due to historical inertia and what I suspect is fear of letting
go in the past (perhaps even now in the present) this element was
handled at the PMC's discretion - with the caveat that Infra would force
an update where required (say SSL vulnerability etc), or if the PMC did
not do it itself the service would be shutdown and the instance shutdown
until such time that the problem had been resolved. 

Right now, I do not believe that these instances are being properly
maintained, and are in need of significant TLC to make them tick along
nicely once more. However, owing to the obscenely difficlut (and in my
opinion frankly ridiculous) setup of the services this is near
impossible to do well. 

>  4. I assume hardware IT support is not the business of the project, and 
> changing boxes is a different deal.  Yes?

Correct, the PMC is provided with a number of virtual machines (not
native hardware, just to avoid any confusion).  If you need to move (and
frankly I would push for this very hard) we would need to stand up the
new instances for you, based on an open discussion of your requirements.

Infra are responsible for making sure that the instances are up, and
that the hardware they run is available. 

> I suspect this is known.  I don't know if the necessary information is 
> anywhere in project materials (haven't looked). 
> This is an area of ignorance for me.  

I hope I have helped clarify somewhat. 


Many thanks,

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