Hi Charles,
first of all. I'm sorry about my wording. I do not want to offend you
by using the wording 'your fr project'. I want to say only that you
started the discussion with Ubuntu in the name of the fr project. Sorry.
Back to the discussion. Comments are in-line :
On 05/18/10 16:48, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
Hello Thorsten,
Le Tue, 18 May 2010 16:09:22 +0200,
Thorsten Ziehm <thorsten.zi...@sun.com> a écrit :
Hi Charles,
I read the thread and saw different aspects discussed here.
1. Your fr project and other projects got feedback about the different
quality of different OOo versions (distributed by different
companies/communities etc.)
"My fr" project is not mine any more than it is everybody's, and it is
my job to help every native-language project out there. Besides, it's
not just about localization, it could affect also other parts of the
code.
I know, that this discussion isn't about localization. It's about
code contribution and different products with the same name.
2. There are issues in IZ which aren't related to OOo (vanilla). They
are for OOo builds by other Linux distros.
Yes, but there are also so many other bugs we don't know about...
I do not know, what do you mean. Which bugs we do not know? In which
product?
3. It is in discussion to import all issue reports of (e.g.) Ubuntu
into IssueTracker.
Not exactly; I'd rather describe it as opening a communication channel
about linux distributions bugs; this is not about duplication of
already existing bugs that are identified in IZ.
Perhaps here are the different understandings between us. I do not
see IssueTracker as a communication channel which can help here.
As I read here the products are different (different build system,
different patch levels ...). I couldn't understand why these different
products should be tracked in one system (IssueZilla). How should this
eliminate the different quality of the products or how should this
help to make the differences between the product more visible for the
users?
It is not a direct effect; rather, it is by setting up an online
communication channel we (by we I mean, OOo, the package maintainers,
the Go-OOo tem) will be able to gradually treat the issues and identify
structural problems (specific patches, etc.)
Do you talk about existing issues in IZ and issues which were/will
wrongly be written in IZ? Then we are on the same side. Then we need
a mechanism to address these issues accordingly.
But as I understand your discussion it's more than this, I'm right?
Beside this Mechtilde brought up a more critical point, thanks for
this. The missing process for issues for other products like the
vanilla OOo. Currently all issues have default owners. Who should
be the default-owner of such issues? What about target handling? What
is about the status of such issues (fixed in Ubuntu build XYZ, but not
in OOo vanilla)? Who should check/confirm/fix the issues? ...
well perhaps we don't have to walk all the way up to these questions at
first. What I mean by this is that first need reporting, then we decide
whether we want to take actions or not. But first and foremost, we need
input. Otherwise; these are very valid questions.
In my opinion the process has to be discussed first. As I understand
this thread correctly, I am not the only one.
I do not think it is a good idea to press different products in one
system (here Bugtracking system). It will bring more complexity in
this system. It will not bring a common visibility for the end users.
And as I understand your request correctly, this is one major part
of the discussion between your project and the Ubuntu team.
Thorsten: I was not representing "my project" but OOo and I was there
as a member of the Community Council who was on a "fact-finding"
mission together with Sophie Gautier :-)
It might bring more complexity (although we certainly can handle this
as I don't foresee the number of reports to be very important) and it
will bring a common visibility of the bugs our users are writing us
about, not knowing what's a bug tracker nor what the difference between
ooo-build and the vanilla build is. Thanks to this visibility we might
then be able to gain a better understanding of what's wrong, whether
we can help in the upstream, whether Go-OO can help or if it's just a
packager downstream doing some lousy job with our software.
I do not understand, how the bugtracking system should help to identify
the problem of the different derivatives of OOo. The issues which were
written to Ubuntu should show them the problems. If they do not know,
why they are different then the vanilla OOo and the go-ooo version, than
nobody on OOo can help anyway.
My resume is, that me should discuss only how we can address the
Issues in IZ which aren't related to vanilla OOo.
No. We should do this AND setup some new communication channels that
will integrate the feedback of distros on OOo. If it's related to the
upstream, we will have gained a bug report, if it's clearly on the side
of Go-OO, they will have gained one, and if it's a grey area then we'll
work as a team to sort this out. Besides this, I believe we can also
start to think on how we could merge Go-OO's IZ into our bugtracker.
I do not understand, why you want to integrate feedback of different
products on OOo. Is this wanted by the OOo project itself. Perhaps you
have to ask the CC about this first instead of asking the executive
QA-project first.
Thorsten
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