Hi Alex, my thoughts on this are various: My perspective of Adobe as a company passed from a company that I love so much thanks to many products, and many actions done in the past years (I think it coincides with "product managers become CEOs of the tech company" and that is noticed in directions taken with the technology and products)....to a company I hate so much, and even removed the need to use any product that comes from Adobe, thanks to the sum of movements (and not movements) in most all business Adobe did in the past 8 years or so (maybe coinciding with "sales managers becoming CEOs of a tech company", in concrete, of course, regarding to flash and flex, but not only that as you or others could expect.
Begin said that, my perspective has started to shift in the past months, thanks to this concrete donation of the work of Peter and you. But, my feeling about this is that we are reaching a good point, we are near, but still are not there. So removing Peter and you now, will be like to run a race just to stay a few meters from the finish line. I think community perspective will be bad if Adobe do that. Probably #flash2020, and Apache Royale 1.0 would be an inflection point since is where all the work done, people planning migration will. That's my vision if like you say Adobe want people turns the bad feelings generated in the last years with all the unfortunate movements. Start removing resources at 0.9.2 and 1'5 years before the burst of the bomb doesn't seem the best strategy to do now for Adobe (just IMHO). In the other hand. I must to say that my company (Codeoscopic) is ok to migrate to Royale its main product. We're preparing the scenario to make that happen, but the decision is already taken. I emailed some days ago about this. So you can count another company in the process :). I think this can be forwarded to your management team, that another company is depending on the work you and Peter make this years, but in the work you still need to do to make Royale a usable technology or what the same: version 1.0. Begin said that, things like className discussion has been crucial in the process, I think that's a little stone in the road, and my perception is that in this list there's great minds in the development field, coding, languages, servers, and so on... but although I share part of that background, my needs, and the needs of many other people out there are as well focused on design, art, ux, design software... and many other visual things...and the way we manage styles in Royale was for me not capable and/or acceptable of doing what people needs. The proof is that I had many problems coding MDL (and we discussed at that time), and the same happened with Jewel (and again we had to lost many emails in this topic)... I always hit the same wall. And we need to discuss many emails to give lots of data and argumentation to try to make you and others understand the problems...problems that exists for people trying to "style" or "paint" the things previously coded in Royale, and now that are hopefully solved, I can continue coding Jewel more quickly. And all of this ends in a UI set that finally is more visual, and that people could start to use as a flex replacement, since I firmly believe that the visuals can make other come to us, and without this problem solved (class name coding) and many others we solved the last months (CSS mainly), Royale was not ready for get visual things and that was a huge problem. For me more important that emulation components (that I'll be referring more later...). So, for migrating out system, I need: * To have a minimun Jewel component set (for this, I still need to make DateField, DateChooser, Autocomplete, and maybe a couple more components, maybe Card?) - so this point is at +-70% * Layouts. (I need to revise Jewel Layouts and make more robust, and maybe use flex-box consistently though all of it ) - % difficult to say now * Have RemoteObject/AMF : Maybe 100% complete but still need to try more types of data communication * Start a "Initial-POC" with my system that makes a login and get some initial data with AMF. (0%, but this days I put some company pieces aligned and I'm ready to start this) I need to present this to the managers and responsible of the actual system. Hope this could happen in the next 1-3 weeks. If "Initial-POC" works right, I think we'll have all needed to start building a Royale client for our system. So this could happen in 1 month from now depending of things needed. Things I still didn't fight and I think are important are: Validators and Formatters and Injection Framework (We use Swiz Framework), and still I need to know if we can have something like Swiz in Royale (metadata, injection,...). I assume this is possible. Another point I need to check are emulation components, I'll be checking in some days, maybe post 0.9.3 release, and see how that could fit in our migration strategy. For now, and since our Flex client is heavily relying on Swiz Framework, for now seems that we have a path of "recreating the client" from scratch, instead of emulate it and then change it...maybe we are still a month behind to see this last part... ...but the first points are very clear to me. That's my vision on all of this explained with total sincerity. Hope that helps, although I'm only one in hundreds or thousand of others out there... So for now, want to thank Adobe the donation of you and Peter's work, and hope that could continue as we reach some important milestones ahead so community could see Adobe again as we saw it before 2010. For me that point is more in #flash2020 time point. Thanks Carlos 2018-04-24 18:16 GMT+02:00 Alex Harui <[email protected]>: > This is not an official Adobe statement, just my personal opinion. Adobe > is not "investing" in Apache Royale. Adobe is "generously donating > resources". Probably well past one million dollars so far. An investment > usually has an expected payback. A charitable donation does not. Adobe is > unlikely to try to build a business around Royale. > > So the factors that affect Peter's assignment on Royale and my assignment > on Royale have nothing to do with "if Adobe spends a bit more they will > make more money". It is simply, "how much do we (Adobe) want to spend on > goodwill". Those of you who personally give to charities probably have > some way of evaluating which charities to give to. Adobe is in the same > situation in terms of donating resources to open source projects at Apache > and elsewhere. It has to make sense to them from a "what do our customers > think of our company" perspective. > > If some major Adobe customers decided to use Royale, that would make it > more important to Adobe to make sure they are successful. But we have not > done that so far. Instead we spend our time rewriting how we manage > classNames, nitpicking about licensing, and discussing lots of other things > when I would much rather we prove that we can help a second customer > migrate. And then a third customer. I believe if we had already somehow > attracted that third customer and they were an important Adobe customer, > Peter would not have been re-assigned. > > This is Apache, so you can scratch any itch you want, but when I do any > work on Royale, my eyes are always on how I can keep convincing my > management to keep donating, not keep investing. And my management cares > little about the internals and much more about who our users are. > > My 2 cents, > -Alex > > On 4/24/18, 7:59 AM, "[email protected] on behalf of Carlos > Rovira" <[email protected] on behalf of [email protected]> > wrote: > > I think things will be converging until we reach 2020 and Flash Player > will > be removed from Browsers. > So we should expect more a more things happening in Apache Royale. Both > users coming, people wanting to migrate from Flex to Royale, and Royale > becoming more a more ready to solve many problems out there. I envision > Royale as the replacement of technologies like Angular or React that > this > years have been the "middle step" to something like we are creating > here. > So I think Adobe should continue investing with Peter here since I > truly > think we can make a difference > > C. > > > > 2018-04-24 11:41 GMT+02:00 Olaf Krueger <[email protected]>: > > > Hi Peter, > > > > >My time on this mission is drawing to a close in a couple of weeks. > I am > > actively trying to find a new >position within Adobe. I hope to > continue to > > participate in the Royale project... > > > > Keep in mind that "A magic dwells in each beginning..." (Hermann > Hesse, > > German poem) ;-) > > However, let us know if the community can do anything in order to > convince > > Adobe to let you continue working on Royale! > > My perception is that since Royale and the "End of FlashPlayer > > Announcement", we have much more attention. > > And I guess there are still a lot of Flex apps out there which has > to be > > migrated. > > So, even if Adobe has done a lot for the community, they may want to > > continue their job so that their customers can migrate their Flex > apps with > > as little effort as possible... by using Royale! > > > > I'll take a look at the Foundation stuff! > > > > Thank you for all that work, Peter! > > Olaf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Sent from: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > http%3A%2F%2Fapache-royale-development.20373.n8.nabble. > com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C6b935504e8ec432c66e108d5a9f3 > fbf3%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0% > 7C636601787726789792&sdata=2ZNZcdyDt9go76qv6%2FtjuMQ0oxojJdlJW1vpqgof1yU% > 3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > -- > Carlos Rovira > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url= > http%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2Fcarlosrovira&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com% > 7C6b935504e8ec432c66e108d5a9f3fbf3%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178de > cee1%7C0%7C0%7C636601787726789792&sdata=3i%2B%2FtdQ% > 2BIFTA0xDCTZTuW6OQBhh0AbDpRA8ObSnwLEM%3D&reserved=0 > > > -- Carlos Rovira http://about.me/carlosrovira
